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Determined Idiot...The Bright Side
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Lib



Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 3423
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Post Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:59 pm   View user's profile Send private message
LostInWalmart



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 1900
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Well, the House "tried" Thursday evening to override the President's chickenshit veto of HR810, but that vote was 235 to 193, well short of the necessary two-thirds majority. The issue is now closed for the year. Thank you very much for coming, mind the gap as you leave. Hope your alzheimer's/spinal injury/diabetes doesn't flare up in the next year or so.

~~~~~

Here then is a list of the Yays and Nays on the veto override attempt (I'm getting deja vu): http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll388.xml

~~~~~

Representatives stand for election every two years, meaning that every single damned one of them is up for re-election. So if this issue is truly important to you, do one of the following:

1) If your Congressperson voted Nay, contact them and inform them of your intention to seek other representation this Fall. And all your friends will too. Oh, and all of your family and their friends too. And their pets.

2) If your Congressperson voted Yay, contact them to let them know that they represented your interests and can count on your vote.

3) If you think the bill SHOULD have been vetoed and you like the way things turned out, then do the reverse of the above, but don't invite me over for drinks)

~~~~~

This election is looking to be critical, so no better time than now to dust off the old activist hat, or get a new one. It's better than getting angrier and bitter-er and cursing at the tv, which annoys my wife.

Bitterly yours,

LIW

(God this really pisses me off. All the other shit does too, but this for some reason REALLY gets me. Bunch of cowards.)

Post Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:01 am   View user's profile Send private message
Nevermore26



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 865
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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Well, at least both my senators & my congressperson voted yea on this. Plus, my state didn't vote for Bush, so I guess I can at least feel smug. Heh, not really. I just feel angry & sad...

Nevermore...

Post Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:25 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mllefifi



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 8964
Location: Deleoware
ESC research  Reply with quote  

I should put this in Politics, but:

<rant ON>
There are at least three things which bug me most about this issue:

(1) Tony Snow the other day, I think, talked about avoiding the "slippery slope." Well, Dubya already slid down that slope a few years ago when he allowed funding for already established cell-lines. A "human life" was destroyed to create each of those established cell-lines, so why is taxpayer money now going into research based on those "killings" but not new ones? That's creating a gray area where we're otherwise told (by self-righteous jerks who seek to control how the rest of us live our lives without policing their own behavior) to believe in distinctions of good/bad, black/white, right/wrong, moral/immoral.

(2) Dubya trotted out some families with "snowflake" children, or whatever cute name they're called -- the ones gestated from abandoned embryos from fertility clinics. He labeled them "blessed." Well, where was the photo-op with the destroyed embryos from those clinics? (The unacknowledged "cursed" ones, as it were.) As I understand, fertility clinics destroy old, unused embryos with donors' permission. This leads me to wonder whether the medical procedures to harvest and fuse any of the involved eggs and sperm have been funded by taxpayer dollars. If so, the responsibility for their destruction belongs to those same dollars which brought them into existence -- and yet we don't hear about that. And even if there be no federal dollars involved in this medical procedure, why just a few "snowflake" kids? Can't all the frozen embryos have a chance? From the rhetoric, one would expect a cup-runneth-over style of love-in-action from all these embryo-huggers, including access to all their open wombs, as well as funerals for the blastocysts that are freezer-burned or that simply can't be "placed" in any "home". (Conception certificates, with legally given names, should be issued, too, of course.)

(3) Detractors argue to the effect that, because no proven or usable results have come about so far (in the 8-10 years of embryonic stem-cell research, as I understand), we shouldn't take seriously the therapeutical promise of this kind of research enough to fund them with federal tax money. That might be a valid argument if discussed in the broader context of comparable long-term medical research, but when this kind of observation is made in a vacuum (although it has been compared sometimes to adult stem-cell research), and comes from the mouths of people who claim that after two millenia the founder of their religion will come back a second time, it's impossible to take seriously their detractive argument about lack of timely results from embryonic stem-cell research.

Oh, yes, there's at least one more concern: as I understand it (and the ladies on the board can correct me, please), naturally occuring embryos often never implant in the womb and are lost, even if contraceptive methods are not used. Who is saving those precious "human lives," pray tell?
</rant OFF>

By the way, I'm not always cynical like this. Much of the time I'm bubblingly ascerbic. Cool
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Post Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:10 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
chris
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Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 3833
Location: People Republic of Northern California
Re: ESC research  Reply with quote  

mllefifi wrote:
I should put this in Politics, but:

<rant ON>
There are at least three things which bug me most about this issue:

(1) Tony Snow the other day, I think, talked about avoiding the "slippery slope." Well, Dubya already slid down that slope a few years ago when he allowed funding for already established cell-lines. A "human life" was destroyed to create each of those established cell-lines, so why is taxpayer money now going into research based on those "killings" but not new ones? That's creating a gray area where we're otherwise told (by self-righteous jerks who seek to control how the rest of us live our lives without policing their own behavior) to believe in distinctions of good/bad, black/white, right/wrong, moral/immoral.

(2) Dubya trotted out some families with "snowflake" children, or whatever cute name they're called -- the ones gestated from abandoned embryos from fertility clinics. He labeled them "blessed." Well, where was the photo-op with the destroyed embryos from those clinics? (The unacknowledged "cursed" ones, as it were.) As I understand, fertility clinics destroy old, unused embryos with donors' permission. This leads me to wonder whether the medical procedures to harvest and fuse any of the involved eggs and sperm have been funded by taxpayer dollars. If so, the responsibility for their destruction belongs to those same dollars which brought them into existence -- and yet we don't hear about that. And even if there be no federal dollars involved in this medical procedure, why just a few "snowflake" kids? Can't all the frozen embryos have a chance? From the rhetoric, one would expect a cup-runneth-over style of love-in-action from all these embryo-huggers, including access to all their open wombs, as well as funerals for the blastocysts that are freezer-burned or that simply can't be "placed" in any "home". (Conception certificates, with legally given names, should be issued, too, of course.)

(3) Detractors argue to the effect that, because no proven or usable results have come about so far (in the 8-10 years of embryonic stem-cell research, as I understand), we shouldn't take seriously the therapeutical promise of this kind of research enough to fund them with federal tax money. That might be a valid argument if discussed in the broader context of comparable long-term medical research, but when this kind of observation is made in a vacuum (although it has been compared sometimes to adult stem-cell research), and comes from the mouths of people who claim that after two millenia the founder of their religion will come back a second time, it's impossible to take seriously their detractive argument about lack of timely results from embryonic stem-cell research.

Oh, yes, there's at least one more concern: as I understand it (and the ladies on the board can correct me, please), naturally occuring embryos often never implant in the womb and are lost, even if contraceptive methods are not used. Who is saving those precious "human lives," pray tell?
</rant OFF>

By the way, I'm not always cynical like this. Much of the time I'm bubblingly ascerbic. Cool



Well said, M.

Post Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:11 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
RedOrcaMoon



Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 2399
Location: someplace...probably inside my head or in another world
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*bows to chris and gives him a nice round of applause* Well said Chris, Well said in your blog. I think thats all that needs to be said from me at the moment.
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Post Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:06 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Lord_Chimmy



Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 16
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Wait until we elect Jeb into office. Idiocy runs our country.

Fret not about stem cell research. Bush is only making the United States less competitive in the research world. There are more progressive nations out there that kick our ass when it comes to stem cell research. Neo-con logic is so fucking backwards.

Post Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:14 pm   View user's profile Send private message
ken
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Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 1324
Location: Boulder, CO
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OK, here's the really scary part. Now I know I sound like CU sometimes, but this came from a reliable source.

The reason that the stem cell bill was vetoed had nothing to do with placating the fundamentalists and everything to do with midterm elections. The stem cell bill was not sufficiently objectionable to pass. By that I mean that the bill only allowed embryoes that were to be discarded to be used for new lines, which nobody much could argue with. That's difficult to make political hay with.

So Karl Rove and his crew sent out a memo to the RNC in the states with closely contested midterm elections and told them to make sure a state version of the stem cell bill gets on the ballot in November (or for some states merely to make sure is in the news at that time) that goes much further - e.g. allows stem cell lines from abortion clinics. They can then accuse those on the other side (Satan-worshipping Liberal Elitests) of whatever it is they accuse Progressives and rational human beings of. This will inflame the fundamentalist base, and get them out to vote in November, hopefully swinging the election.

It's the same tactic they used with the anti-gay amendments at the state level in 2004.
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Post Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:31 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Lenore



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 361
Location: east coast
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So who's the Anti Christ? Bush, Cheney or Rove?

Shall we make a wager?

They all friggen give me the creeps.

Post Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:32 am   View user's profile Send private message
conspiracies unlimited



Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 4281
Location: California
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Thanks for the nod Ken...
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Post Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:00 pm   View user's profile Send private message
chris
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Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 3833
Location: People Republic of Northern California
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ken wrote:
OK, here's the really scary part. Now I know I sound like CU sometimes, but this came from a reliable source.

The reason that the stem cell bill was vetoed had nothing to do with placating the fundamentalists and everything to do with midterm elections. The stem cell bill was not sufficiently objectionable to pass. By that I mean that the bill only allowed embryoes that were to be discarded to be used for new lines, which nobody much could argue with. That's difficult to make political hay with.

So Karl Rove and his crew sent out a memo to the RNC in the states with closely contested midterm elections and told them to make sure a state version of the stem cell bill gets on the ballot in November (or for some states merely to make sure is in the news at that time) that goes much further - e.g. allows stem cell lines from abortion clinics. They can then accuse those on the other side (Satan-worshipping Liberal Elitests) of whatever it is they accuse Progressives and rational human beings of. This will inflame the fundamentalist base, and get them out to vote in November, hopefully swinging the election.

It's the same tactic they used with the anti-gay amendments at the state level in 2004.


Know what? That sounds frighteningly plausible.

Post Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:44 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mllefifi



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 8964
Location: Deleoware
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chris wrote:
Know what? That sounds frighteningly plausible.

As long as it's not plausibly deniable... Twisted Evil
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Post Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:58 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Queen Geek



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 42
Location: san diego
Not your father's idiot...  Reply with quote  

Well, as someone else said, you've put it quite eloquently. In the past, when politicians were idiots, we just voted them out of office. Today, it seems that the more idiotic a politician is, the more kudos he or she gets from red-state lemmings.

As to the stem-cell thing, I am in total agreement. A lot of us have pointed out the intense hypocrisy of squelching stem cell research while wantonly sending people to be killed, or by killing innocents abroad. Impeachment seems to be the only answer, but no one seems to want to bother. I am reminded of Neil Young's song LOOKING FOR A LEADER: someone, somewhere in this country is walking around thinking about this dire situation, and he or she could be the person we need to step up and lead us in change. Where are you? Hurry up!!! (I'd do it, but I'd piss off too many people. Plus, politics gives me a rash.)
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Post Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:31 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
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