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Australian Fucktards

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Kianu



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 1974
Location: Third rock from the sun.
Australian Fucktards  Reply with quote  

Cultural awareness and pride through education and good living conditions would go a lot farther than treating indigenous people like insulant children.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/06/21/australia.pornography.ap/index.html
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Post Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:07 am   View user's profile Send private message
Goudron



Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 2570
Location: near Cleveland OH
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True, but sometimes I wonder what would have been different if native americans weren't as susceptible to alcoholism.
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Post Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:13 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Amigo



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 2499
 Reply with quote  

Goudron wrote:
True, but sometimes I wonder what would have been different if native americans weren't as susceptible to alcoholism.


Perhaps, but as with the Austrailian aborigines, you have to understand the root causes for that alcoholism. Personally, I don't think that Australian aborigines or Native Americans are any more "susceptible" to alcoholism than the general population.

I believe their treatment from the beginning of the white mans conquest of the world, explains the sad state they are in today.

Post Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:54 am   View user's profile Send private message
Notdeadyet



Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 4056
Location: Midwest
 Reply with quote  

>X< I just kissed Amigo. Cool
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Post Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:27 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Goudron



Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 2570
Location: near Cleveland OH
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I was fairly certain I was basing my opinions on facts I read years ago, but after some searching to confirm I wasn't just being racist, I must be wrong. this is the best article I found although there aren't many references in it.

http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF1301/Clawson/Clawson.html

Quote:
As late as 1973, research comparing the metabolic rates of Canadian Indians and Eskimos with whites in Edmonton, Alberta seem to confirm the myth. Researchers reported, "the natives were found to metabolize alcohol at a significantly slower rate than whites."

Knowledgeable scientists found major flaws in the methods of the Alberta study. By 1976, a whole series of studies of Indian susceptibility to alcohol were published. Avoiding the errors that marred the Alberta study, new research consistently found Indians to metabolize alcohol at the same rate or faster than whites.


I couldn't find anything specifically about susceptibility to alcoholism. Growing up in rural-ish Manitoba, I had plenty of empirical evidence that alcohol was bad news for Native Canadians. I was behind the counter of a corner store, and an obviously drunk Native man bought a bottle of listerine from me. He came back for a second bottle an hour later. I hid the third and final bottle before he came back - which he did. It was not uncommon for Natives to get drunk with lysol, but I suppose these were just really cheap highs. I'm all for scrimping and saving, but this was a soul-crushing problem.

The cause is more likely the social situation and history as opposed to biological susceptibility. I'm told my great grandfather was Metis, and an alcoholic, but I don't know of alcoholism in my family since then.
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Post Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:32 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Notdeadyet



Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 4056
Location: Midwest
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>X<, there that's for Goudron.
I didn't think you were being racist.... it's totally true. I've seen people drink listerine, lysol, mr. clean, and after shave. But I think Amigo has a point about people feeling lost and losing their culture and direction and because of this may have seen no other way out and/or learned these behaviors from their parents..... I know an author from St. Ignace and some other natives that were literally taken out of their homes and stuck in a school with nuns, food they didn't recognize, stuck in a dormitory, had their heads shaved and beaten for talking their language. http://www.marquette.edu/library/collections/archives/NativeGuide/MI/M-58.pdf
That'd kinda take the starch out of anyone.... learned helplessness I believe it is called.
I totally buy your think about metabolism also, through the BIA health clinic program, they really promote running and exercise and hockey because natives are really, really susceptible to juvenile onset diabetes... obviously their metabolism is different... of course, it doesn't help that in the rural area there is not access to a lot of fresh fruits or veges either...
The book Ordinary Wolves (Alaskan natives) kind of talks about it.
HEY, Ron is on Amazon...
http://www.amazon.com/Not-First-Nobodys-Heart-Contemporary/dp/0813818362/ref=sr_1_1/002-5765923-6616809?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182566756&sr=1-1
I am in shock. Ron didn't go to the nun school, but I know others who did and turned out much worse than Ron. Hey, my evil twin wrote a review...I have never read this book, I am shocked he doesn't "reminisce about native ways..." I have seen Ron give many classes and talk to young kids about traditional ways and he really enjoys talking about it. Huh. weird.
If anyone ever gets to St. Iggy, Ron is usually around the Father Marquette museum doing birch bark work, which he is excellent at!!! Scroll down to see classes... http://www.geocities.com/~sault-arts/workshop.htm
Oh, I lied, he is teaching classes at the maritime museum now.... Cool
Specifically regarding the aboriginal people of Australia, the movie Rabbit Proof Fence , well, you should watch it!
http://www.amazon.com/Rabbit-Proof-Fence-Story-Greatest-Escapes/dp/0786887842/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/002-5765923-6616809?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182568117&sr=8-2
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Post Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:57 pm   View user's profile Send private message
fortune cookie



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 10534
Location: Easy street
 Reply with quote  

Deny a people, their culture, heritage, way of life.
Their very Identity, as a people.
Things are gonna go wrong.
No big mystery.
The question is, "What is the plan to right the wrong?".
The question should never be, "How you gonna place the blame?"

An elder once said to me, "Alcohol is the medicine of the white man.
Tobacco is the red mans medicine. For us to exchange and misuse these
medicines, is to bring sickness for both.
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Post Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:08 am   View user's profile Send private message
zendao42



Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 13570
Location: Somewhere in a galaxy near you
 Reply with quote  

fortune cookie wrote:

An elder once said to me, "Alcohol is the medicine of the white man.
Tobacco is the red mans medicine. For us to exchange and misuse these
medicines, is to bring sickness for both.

Yep, my ex was an abuser of both-
one of many reasons that he's an ex now...
Goudron wrote:
I was fairly certain I was basing my opinions on facts I read years ago, but after some searching to confirm I wasn't just being racist, I must be wrong.

Yeah, since I took classes for statistics & research methods
(where we had to conduct our own research & report the results)-
let me warn you that the problem is in the way research is conducted
& what might be considered "statistically significant"...

Let's put it this way- sometimes it's less than a 10% difference,
which I would consider "marginal" at best...

Post Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:06 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Amigo



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 2499
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Notdeadyet wrote:
>X< I just kissed Amigo. Cool


Goudron wrote:
I was fairly certain I was basing my opinions on facts I read years ago, but after some searching to confirm I wasn't just being racist, I must be wrong.[...]


Notdeadyet wrote:
>X<, there that's for Goudron.[...]


fortune cookie wrote:
Deny a people, their culture, heritage, way of life.
Their very Identity, as a people.
Things are gonna go wrong.
No big mystery.
The question is, "What is the plan to right the wrong?".
The question should never be, "How you gonna place the blame?"[...]


Hey, NDY, thanks for that kiss!

But don't you think FC also deserves one? Smile

Post Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:15 am   View user's profile Send private message
Notdeadyet



Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 4056
Location: Midwest
 Reply with quote  

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND AMIGO???
I think his woman is a Lakhota, or even worse a Shoshone sister!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing
Yeah, well he's right, you can't blame them for wanting to assimilate them into white culture as there are lots of things about the culture that sucked before the white man came. I don't think I would want to live on a res where Anishnabe could go raid the Huron res or just go kill them all over hunting grounds... and I'm sure it wasn't easy for the nuns to live there either and they thought they were doing the best thing.....
In my mind the solution entails two things...
It has to come from within, and you have to have enough resources to accomplish it...
I'll tell you, I was listening to Bernard (Former chief of the Sault Ojibwa) talk about what it was like on the res when he was a kid.... dirt roads, hovels, no one wanted to spend any more on their houses as they couldn't get insurance for them anyway, no tax base to make decent roads so EMS services couldn't get to them anyway, and if the fire truck couldn't come, how could you get house insurance anyway....it was just a never ending circle of poverty with no escape... the casinos changed that. They are sending kids to school now to work in the hospitals, buying computers, all kinds of wonderful things happened. But then our stupid state got greedy, it was look at all the money the Indians are making, lets legalize gambling all over the state and get in on this....people never wanted to admit to being Indian, if they looked Indian, they would say they were French, now 87% of the public school kids are in the tribe, that's a quarter blood they had to prove, all of a sudden EVERYBODY wants to be Indian...it's cool to be native. (My kids were uncool scandos.... but they still had to take Anishnabe culture and language classes at school and they enjoyed it... the tables were turned huh? If you're white imagine if your kid had to be tested on Native American language. Laughing )
But anyway, now there is decent housing and enough money for schools and ice rinks and community centers and things have improved a lot. And it is coming from within the tribe, they are deciding what they need as they know best. I always felt a lot safer there than where I live now...
As far as the Australian aboriginals, I don't know how their change would have to come about, but I know that treating them as second class citizens with different laws and more restrictions as if they can't make decisions for themselves is NOT going to help. Evil or Very Mad
END OF RANT.... sorry Embarassed
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Post Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:47 am   View user's profile Send private message
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