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Kar98



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 3170
Location: Dallas, Texas
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Aubie wrote:
People bitch about Big Brother watching them but holy smackdown jesus they want it to pay for every fucking thing.


Needs to be the motto on the dollar bill.
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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:19 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Ginjg



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 6617
Location: Los Angeles
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Lest we forget, the government's money is OURS. It should be put to our benefit. I'm not arguing that government should co-opt health care, but it damned well should put the money we give it towards the well-being of the nation.

If that means providing health care to families that can't afford it otherwise, than let's get it done.
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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:34 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
juissez



Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 145
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When the government steps in on medical situations I find myself wondering what protections exist for the citizens who use it. Specifically in regards to a patient's personal medical information. When you have the Feds acting as an insurance company, don't they need to know what procedures the patient is undergoing and which health care providers they are seeing before they pay the money to the doctors? And aren't these the very things that the government is not supposed to see without a court order? Doctor Patient Confidentially and all...

And shouldn't we as citizens know the answers to these questions before Congress passes these new entitlements, or before we denounce a President for vetoing it?

If anyone knows of specific protections placed in this bill to protect the private information of patients please let me know

Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:09 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Ginjg



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 6617
Location: Los Angeles
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the devil is always in the details and those who accept the government's assistance seldom know what they've sold in the bargain.

Healthcare comes under the heading of public safety. Assuring access to medical care to those who can't afford it on their own is as necessary to the general population as maintaining a clean water supply.
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Post Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:12 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
leprrkan



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 5089
Location: In the home stretch...
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Quote:
When the government steps in on medical situations I find myself wondering what protections exist for the citizens who use it. Specifically in regards to a patient's personal medical information. When you have the Feds acting as an insurance company, don't they need to know what procedures the patient is undergoing and which health care providers they are seeing before they pay the money to the doctors? And aren't these the very things that the government is not supposed to see without a court order? Doctor Patient Confidentially and all...


This is a good point, but the plan he vetoed was for KIDS and health insurance for them, so the doctor/patient privilege doesn't really apply (at least until age 14 in most states, unless I'm mistaken).

Quote:
Personally, I don't want my yearly hoo-ha exam or my hubby's back surgery to be done by the lowest bidder that the government deems worthy. If you don't think thats the way it will be, you're dillusioned. People think HMOs are bad? Shit, government HC would be insane and probably worse.


I've never had to deal with an HMO, so I may be wrong about this, but I think they are a privatized version of health-care, which is the route (allegedly) that the president wants to go. Government run health care would be, for example, the VA. Granted, it's got its problems and flaws, but it seems to run more smoothly than most hospitals. But again, I speak from limited experience gleaned from my own area.

And as far as tax dollars being spent on it, I would rather have my tax money spent on something that actually makes a difference than on some of the nonsense it's now spent on. For example, they are using local tax dollars to give several million dollars to a local casino (that just opened in February and has already surpassed the billion dollar mark) to make structural improvements. How about letting MTR gaming make their own fucking improvements and putting my tax money into job programs to help some of the 3,000 or so people who've lost their jobs in Erie County in the last year? I feel the same about my federal tax dollars. Use them for health care for kids or for school programs or for hot lunches for shut-ins; stop using them to research a bomb that would "turn" the enemy "gay" if dropped on them in battle (yes, they really have researched this, maybe someone knows of the link to the story).
We're going to pay taxes, that's a given. The money's going to be spent, another given. I think we need to re-prioritize how we are spending it, or letting it be spent in our name.
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Post Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:13 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
juissez



Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 145
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leprrkan wrote:
This is a good point, but the plan he vetoed was for KIDS and health insurance for them, so the doctor/patient privilege doesn't really apply (at least until age 14 in most states, unless I'm mistaken).


I believe the parents have control over their children's privilege. I think that the only time the government can get any information without the parent's consent is when the doctor believes the child is being raped or beaten. In such cases it is the doctors responsibility to notify the authorities.

This is much different that what I was speaking about in my previous post. It is the difference between looking for child molesters and compiling medical information of a large group of people (in this case children)

Post Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:59 am   View user's profile Send private message
lisa



Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 6789
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Ginjg wrote:
Lest we forget, the government's money is OURS. It should be put to our benefit. I'm not arguing that government should co-opt health care, but it damned well should put the money we give it towards the well-being of the nation.

If that means providing health care to families that can't afford it otherwise, than let's get it done.



Our money is the government's. It will be put it's own benefits. No money is put towards the well-being of any nation. If you are getting healthcare and insurance it means it's what we call alms money. It's thrown towards you like beggars get tossed with some.
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Post Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:08 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ferrit Leggings



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 2658
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The motto of the dollar bill should be:

Live in Fear

This country has been living in fear since the cold war and when that was over and one with we replaced that fear with the fear of terrorism. If this fear is so great then we should take our troops out of harms way and every country we are in and protect our own boarders. The truth is that we create our own fears through extended media coverage while the troops canít get a little extra leave time because those that pretend to support them back stab them at the slightest opportunity.

Andrew Jackson was the first president that had a baby passed to him for a photo op of baby kissing. He declined and passed the child to his secretary of war. Now the president kisses the baby and later sends the kid off to die for a war on terror that cannot be won. First the kiss and then the fucking.

War should be avoided but we went straight into one without provocation and there is no easy way out. If there was an easy way out Bush would have taken it just like he did during Vietnam, he wasnít a pilot. He pretended to be a pilot like a kid pretends to be a fire fighter sitting on a Tonka Truck pissing on a fire.

There are a few noble jobs in the US. One is a cop who is sworn to protect and serve. The second job is a soldier who lives by the same motto and the other is a fire fighter. Doctor used to be on that list but no more. Doctors are slaves to a system put into place by none other than Tricky Dick Nixon. That should be an eye opener there.

After world war two the allied forces went to work on trying to better the lives of their citizens while America fought with the Soviets over arms and policies. We say we won but the only thing that brought down the USSR was simple economics. They could not survive the fight because of lack of resources and money. The US has money and resources but we donít use them for the people.

I am tired of my tax dollars going to airports in the middle of nowhere, roads that donít need fixing but are fixed to keep the budgets high, tax cuts for the rich so that the riches scraps can be urinated down to the working people, and salaries of politicians that donít follow through with anything. I donít mind paying more in taxes if the money goes to something for the people and I donít make that much.

When I worked as a preschool teacher I paid over 100 dollars a week for health insurance. It was a basic plan and I didnít have a choice. Actually I did have a choice and it was either a premium plan that would have left me in bankruptcy because I wouldnít have been able to pay bills or no insurance at all.

Now I have no insurance. I am among the 46 million of people that do not have any care at all. I could have kept the insurance but it was simple math. Eat, pay bills, or have health care.

The math is simple for Universal Health Care. This was under my basic plan:
Deductible for office visit: $40
Deductible for prescriptions: $60
Monthly Payment: $400

My health plan per month now is:
Fast Food: 0
Fruits and vegetables: 100
Meats: 20
Grains: 50

The only time I eat out is when I visit my grandmother. I bring her out to her favorite restaurant and that payment is rotated between family.

My plan for illness is also simple. I die. That is the same plan that 40+ million Americans have under the current health care system. If I get sick I will not visit a doctor or emergency room and the reason is that I will not put the cost of my living onto anyone in my family. I will also not live in fear of anything. That means not fearing terrorists that are swimming across the Atlantic, communists, or any bogus fear brought on by poor foreign relations. Spend the money and feel secure against Osama. I would rather be dead than live in fear.
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Post Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:15 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
lisa



Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 6789
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Ferrit Leggings wrote:
That means not fearing terrorists that are swimming across the Atlantic, communists, or any bogus fear brought on by poor foreign relations. Spend the money and feel secure against Osama. I would rather be dead than live in fear.


My dear brother...You are the Terrorist Country that is harrassing the poor foreign nations. Osama works for you. You should be beating your chest like Tarzan and swinging from tree to tree. Smile
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Post Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:21 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Aubie



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1428
Location: Bammer
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Quote:
And as far as tax dollars being spent on it, I would rather have my tax money spent on something that actually makes a difference than on some of the nonsense it's now spent on. For example, they are using local tax dollars to give several million dollars to a local casino (that just opened in February and has already surpassed the billion dollar mark) to make structural improvements. How about letting MTR gaming make their own fucking improvements and putting my tax money into job programs to help some of the 3,000 or so people who've lost their jobs in Erie County in the last year? I feel the same about my federal tax dollars. Use them for health care for kids or for school programs or for hot lunches for shut-ins; stop using them to research a bomb that would "turn" the enemy "gay" if dropped on them in battle (yes, they really have researched this, maybe someone knows of the link to the story).
We're going to pay taxes, that's a given. The money's going to be spent, another given. I think we need to re-prioritize how we are spending it, or letting it be spent in our name.


Just because it's under the title of Universal Health Care doesn't mean the feds won't fuck it up. It's what they do. You raise taxes and give them a blank check and say 'here's 110 billion, per year, do something with it that involves health care, make it work or something.'

You'll get the lowest bidder getting everything or they'll find loopholes for their pork projects. A medical casino! Rx companies will get in and just take money. It will end the capitalist system of medicine.

In a current system, say Doc A is a fucking loon. Kills his patients, doesn't believe in more modern tactics and keeps giving the wrong diagnosis to keep the patient coming back while Doc B is on the cutting edge.

In this current system Doc A, who has no right to be practicing, will go bankrupt and be gone. Doc B who is good will keep going and more than likely find new innovative ways of practicing their field. But, the government will look at Doc A and say 'wow, he's cheaper!' You'll have more quacks practicing and getting away with it just to save the feds a couple of bucks.

I wouldn't mind giving money to a system that would work. But this won't. Look how great Medicare and Medicaid have worked. Rolling Eyes

Now if the feds want to start making better guidelines and laws to protect people and make the system fairer, that's different. Taking the whole ship over, a disaster.
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Post Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:26 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lisa M



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1844
Location: Rhode Island
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There was a report the other day on NPR - http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15178883
that said that medicaide fraud in Southern Florida is a $35 Billion a year business. That is in just two counties. I am not sure how this fits into the discussion, but where there is a government program there is always abuse. I have no clues how to fix that.
Oh, wasn`t the cost of the children`s health care $35 billiion?

Post Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:46 am   View user's profile Send private message
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