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Jillybeans



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 2247
Location: Cambridge, Massachusetts
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Oops, I think I hit a nerve that I wasn't intending to do. But I meant it as being funny. I hope I didn't piss you off but I have to tell ya, I AGREE WITH YOU, CHRIS. I was watching something on the Shroud of Turin where they've done proportional studies of the face of whom is supposedly Christ and the face is very similar to that of Leonardo Da Vinci. They've never tested it for DNA but have found paint pigment in it. Now if that is the case wouldn't you say that the world is really in for an enlightenment when it would appear that the Roman Empire really didn't die but is now known as the Vatican still worshipping pagan idols and after two thousand years it's all bullshit and we're basically screwed. It is an interesting thought.
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Post Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:53 pm   View user's profile Send private message
chris
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 3833
Location: People Republic of Northern California
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Jillybeans wrote:
Oops, I think I hit a nerve that I wasn't intending to do. But I meant it as being funny. I hope I didn't piss you off but I have to tell ya, I AGREE WITH YOU, CHRIS. I was watching something on the Shroud of Turin where they've done proportional studies of the face of whom is supposedly Christ and the face is very similar to that of Leonardo Da Vinci. They've never tested it for DNA but have found paint pigment in it. Now if that is the case wouldn't you say that the world is really in for an enlightenment when it would appear that the Roman Empire really didn't die but is now known as the Vatican still worshipping pagan idols and after two thousand years it's all bullshit and we're basically screwed. It is an interesting thought.



No, no, no, not you. Just something that hits me now and again when I'm continually bombed with people's religious self-importance, as we've been this year. (And since the Da Vinci Code happened.) All the mysteries and codes and secrets and self-centeredness completely ignores the biggest mystery of them all. Why is God being secretive? Apparently he loved fucking with people in the Middle East three thousand years ago.

I don't need to decode ancient manuscripts or the subtext of Italian painters to come up with questions to keep me busy.

And since I'm headed down that road, "Hey God, what's up with the suffering? That really fucking necessary?"

And if you were God, would you put the message in the hands of a gay Florentine or would you say, encode it in DNA? Perhaps in the chemistry of an octopus, or a neutron star. I refuse to think that an all-powerful being communicates through the New York Times Crossword or any other puzzle for that matter.

And if God is all about game playing, isn't the name of the game Survivor?

"Here's a planet. See if your species can stay alive for four million years. Here's a hint -- cooperate.

"Oh, and what you don't know, there are a million other planets playing the same game. Same rules.
Here's another hint -- balance.

Okay, I'll check back in four million. Carry on."

Post Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:01 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jillybeans



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 2247
Location: Cambridge, Massachusetts
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Why the suffering? Why do people become religiously self righteous? I'd have to say because we haven't learned from the teachings of Christ, Buddha or any of the masters the basic rules of a civilized people that just because you can screw someone over doesn't mean you should. We don't know ourselves and isn't that what the teachings are about? People become very changed only when they've have suffered. For some it's less, for most it's more. I don't believe we help people when we throw money at them like with the Tsunami victims or Katrina survivors. Most people whine and complain but show me someone who hasn't suffered. Any religion, doctrine or philosophy will say: "Know thyself". Most people are too lazy, too scared or too stupid to figure that out. I've little use with people like Pat Robertson or Bush who claim to be God fearing Christians when they do and say some of the shit they do.
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The world in which you were born is just one model of reality.
OTHER CULTURES ARE NOT FAILED ATTEMPTS AT BEING YOU:
They are unique manifestations of the human spirit.

Wade Davis (I knew there was a reason I liked Wade Davis)

Post Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:13 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Lauren



Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Posts: 1582
Location: Massachusetts
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On the Bible Code - I remember when the book first came out, I brought a copy up to the register at the bookstore and my crew and I sat there snickering as we read through it.

It really is like some sort of ancient biblical word-find game, where the authors "discovered" that the original text of the Old Testament had patterns in it - because, y'know, the Book of Genesis isn't full of stories that were passed down by word of mouth for generations or anything. Grrr.

Anyway, so, if you counted every fifth letter, or something like that (they had all sorts of little formulas), you could find predictions. Oh, how quaint. The book came out in 1998. It finds all of these nifty things in the Bible, like WWII, and the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, and the Oklahoma City bombings, and wow! Lots of things! But...only up to 1998.

And then it gets vague. Now! Heres the thing. If you read the intro (which you can see with Amazon's look inside thinger), he says he gave Rabin a letter a year before the assassination saying "D00d, j00 r so fucked." So, my question is, why can't he name names or give any examples of things that will happen after 1998? Oh, sure, there's all sorts of neat stuff about comets and WWIII and the Apocalypse, but there's nothing about September 11th, now is there?

Of course not. That's what the sequels are for! And of course, Bible Code II opens with him watching the towers fall, going "OMG! It's right there in the code!" No, I haven't read the second book. Because it's bullshit. And yet again, the predictions for things that happen after the pub date are all "visions of one possible future."

Pfft. Whatever. I'm going to go throw some Special K with Fruit and Yogurt on the floor of my cubicle and see if it will tell me when I can go home for the day.

OMG! The berries say 5:00! It's like the Kellogg's people knew all along...
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Post Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:30 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address ICQ Number
sgt_steve



Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 5197
Location: Michissippi
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Lauren wrote:
Anyway, so, if you counted every fifth letter, or something like that (they had all sorts of little formulas), you could find predictions.
Putting on my cryptography geek hat for a moment...

What Lauren describes is a common problem. If you have an ambiguous message, you can read any content into it. The so-called prophecies of Nostradamus are like that. Folks read what he says, look for the closest real historical incident, then decide that he must have meant that particular one. Nonsense. Given enough history and a vague prediction, you can always find some event that seems to match and therefore was predicted. In the 1950s and 60s, some folks thought that when Nostradamus said "The great bear shall strike from the north with fire and ice" they thought he means the Russians were going to nuke us from over the pole. But he could have meant that time that Hongan Os the Viking Chieftan lead the Bear Clan through an ice storm by the light of a torch to make a sneak attack at his enemies, and wiped them all out. Nobody remembers Torvald Suggeson, who did the same and lost everybody in a glacial crevasse. Of course, nobody remembers Hongan Os either, because I just made up both of those guys - but it sure sounded plausible, didn't it?

[[ As an aside, remember that 84.6% of all statistics are made up. You won't find that in the stat books, tho, because the statisticians are covering it up to preserve their jobs. ]]

When you add code interpretation to the mix, things get even wilder. Somebody does what Lauren describes above, and gets a nonsense message. So they change the sequence - instead of 'a' meaning 'such-and-such', they try it as 'this-and-that.' Keep repeating until you get a message that seems to make sense. Then refine your code further, so that the message makes even more sense. Voila! You've decoded something and found a hidden message.

Crap. All you've done is found a sequence and set of rules that generate a particular message. As an example, here is
a phrase with a hidden message in it:

    CHRISMOORE
and here are the rules for decoding it:
    All capital Ss are spaces
    CH in the first position means D
    E as the last letter means N
    I following an R means N
    M after a space means B
    A doubled vowel means the original vowel followed by a w. Thus EE becomes ER, II becomes IR, etc.
    Single O means R
    R as the fourth letter is discarded
    R in the second position means A
    ...and a whole lot more rules that we won't need for our actual example.
Let's you and me apply each rule one at a time, with CAPITAL letters for what we started with, and and lower case being what we get:
    CHRISMOORE -> CHRI MOORE (S becomes space)
    CHRI MOORE -> dRIS MOORE (CH first becomes d)
    dRISMOORE -> dRIS MOORn (E at the end becomes n)
    dRISMOORn -> dRn MOORn (I following R becomes n)
    dRnMOORn -> dRn bOORn (M after space becomes b)
    dRn bOORn -> dRn browRn (Doubled vowel becomes vowel-w)
    dRn browRn -> dRn brown (R in letter 4 discarded)
    dRn brown -> dan brown (R in letter 2 becomes a)

And there you have it - CHRISMOORE is Dan Brown. Remember, you saw it here first.

Well, obviously Chris Moore isn't Dan Brown (shaddup, CU). But it took me less than 10 minutes to make up a set of arcane-sounding rules that decodes it that way. Took a helluva lot longer than that to write this post.

You might say that if I'm so smart, why doesn't STEVESMITH seem to decode to anything. Well, that's because the rules change as you go through the text (which real crypto does), so you've got to read the rest of those rules to find out that Steve Smith is really Julia Child. Oh, you didn't read those rules, or they don't seem to work? Well, I gotta admit, what I printed out isn't the complete rules. Nor have a really told you how to apply them - for example, after every transformed letter, should you start back at the top of the rules or go forward to the next rule? I'd print out the complete rules, but that'd make the book so expensive nobody would buy it. Besides, it's my secret. For my next trick I'm gonna decode the phone book, and don't want anybody to steal my copywritten thunder.

Yeah, right.

Post Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:22 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
deb



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 6325
Location: Montana
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my head hurts.
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Post Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:57 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jillybeans



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 2247
Location: Cambridge, Massachusetts
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Oops, so does mine after that and if I wanted to read destiny into my last name I should have been Chinese and a Zen buddhist. Hui Zen with a GA at the end. I'm not kidding. I got into a huge fight with a teacher who said it wasn't me even though I look Eurasian. So in the middle of the class I finally agreed with her saying there must have been one in the woodpile because the Dutch were mariners and a port in every storm. She was Korean. Didn't get my sense of humor. But then again I am obtuse. Hahaha. Stupid Joke. I'll go home now.
_________________
The world in which you were born is just one model of reality.
OTHER CULTURES ARE NOT FAILED ATTEMPTS AT BEING YOU:
They are unique manifestations of the human spirit.

Wade Davis (I knew there was a reason I liked Wade Davis)

Post Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:06 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Lib



Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 3423
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If Chris is Dan Brown and Steve is Julia Child...who am I? Confused
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Post Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:30 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Klari



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 4734
Location: Portland, OR
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Ooooh, Cybermeister Ken. Snap!! I felt that way, I just didn't find that angle. And since all of my CM books are firsts, then it applies in my universe.



When people get to talking about God as a being that sits up there and pulls our strings to make us dance I get a picture of a kid like Sid in Toy Story tormenting insects under a microscope in the sun, or putting stuff in the path of ants just to see what they'd do. It just doesn't jive for me. Knowing what's going to happen just ain't any fun. So sitting up there planning all this stuff out, especially enough to plant word clues? Do people REALLY think that God is some kind of Scrabble loving verbal nerd? Nothing else could possibly make God tick...


The translators that brought us King James didn't even translate it accurately, how can anyone expect them to have planted word clues, and if they did, how accurate can they be? And what of the gospels that were left out of the Bible, randomly chosen by a group of men?

What I want to know is who pissed God off so much three thousand years ago that he had to keep fucking with people? And just what did it take? Because I'd have thought by now that certain people in our time would have tipped the scales. Besides the obvious politicians. That Cat lady who is addicted to plastic surgery. And Michael Jackson. And Paris Hilton. Just for existing. Clearly, he's fucking with the Donald, the hair is the clue, but just what did he do?

Oh, and apparently we have award winning Mac and Cheese at a place here in P-town called the Montage. It's a very strange joint closed at like 6 in the evening but open in the middle of the night. They are billed as a Cajun restaurant, but aside from using Cajun spices, I see little about their menu that is truely Cajun, but I've not been in a while. I think a plate of their Mac and Cheese will run you around $5. Anywho, if you ever come to town for longer than a day, it's worth going just to be able to say you've been. It's kind of a Portland subversive right of passage.

Post Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:38 am   View user's profile Send private message
palmer



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1324
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Jillybeans wrote:
Off the subject a wee bit, but have any of you heard of this "Bible Code" theory where supposedly things are predicted like the Twin Towers and World Wars and all that good shit? My first thought? Who would have known that God and his buddies were into word search, acrostics and crossword puzzles. And then I thought "How could that be?" The bible's been edited so many times that we really don't have an original first edition of it. Just a thought. I'll go home now.


There are whole books written on it -- innocent trees!

If you start on a particular letter and then take every, say, 307th letter thereafter, for a while, you get a simple (very simple sentence of dubious significance. Computers make it easy.

In a document that long, I'd be amazed if one couldn't find such things.

I believe it works in translation, too, which makes it all very suspicious.

Post Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:14 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Thom



Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Posts: 57
Location: Seattle Area
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Quote:
If Chris is Dan Brown and Steve is Julia Child...who am I?


Chris isn't Dan Brown, but then again neither is Dan Brown. That's okay, you're not really you either. It's all ego and the illusion of self.

The same kind of thing that has God thinking he created the universe really.

Hear that? It's the sound of one hand clapping a dog's Buddha nature. Wink

Post Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:52 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Guest





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You forgot to figure out cost-per-laugh. I bet AG cleaned up in that catagory!

Post Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:39 pm   
conspiracies unlimited



Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 4281
Location: California
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sgt_steve wrote:
And there you have it - CHRISMOORE is Dan Brown. Remember, you saw it here first.

Well, obviously Chris Moore isn't Dan Brown (shaddup, CU)


HA!!!

Take that all you anti-Dan Moore morons!!! HA!!! Bow down to your real lord and master!!!

Ha!!!

And double HA!!!

sorry, low blood sugar or something...
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Post Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:44 pm   View user's profile Send private message
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