Securing Copyright Permissions.

Dios freakin' Mio, man.

Does anybody know how to begin the process of securing copyright permissions? (i.e. use song lyrics in my novel.)

Also, do you know if you quote a line from a movie or tv show if you have to get copyright permission?

I went to copyright.gov ... Well, it's a government site, what can I expect? The online data base is in DOS ... DOS ... D.O.S. unreal. Maybe if we get out of Iraq the copyright department could afford an Oracle database.

Any help would be appreciated.
_________________
My Book
My Myspace

you have to contact the music publisher for each particular song.
_________________
To Learn is to Know
To Know is to Love
To Love is our aim

~~~~~~~

Why should we bother with immortality when we are eternal?

You have to write to the publisher. They usually have a permissions department. That department has a form. (Random House had their's on line.) You have to write to them and see if they are going to charge you. Songs are particularly sticky. You may end up paying a buttload for permissions. I originally used a line from the Beatle's Blackbird for the last section of Lamb (the line about "All your life, you have only been waiting for this moment to arise." ) After a brief search into what it was going to cost, I ended up using something in the public domain.


Movies are tougher. I'm not sure of the rules. I've quoted movies a number of times in context and haven't gotten permission without a problem.

I used a couple of quotes from a Random House book from 1961 in A Dirty Job. It took about five weeks and cost $100.00 -- which was reasonable. I've also recieved $50 here and there from people who used passages from my books in publications or on TV programs ( in Germany).

chris wrote:

You have to write to the publisher. They usually have a permissions department. That department has a form. (Random House had theirs on line.) You have to write to them and see if they are going to charge you. Songs are particularly sticky. You may end up paying a buttload for permissions. I originally used a line from the Beatle's Blackbird for the last section of Lamb (the line about "All your life, you have only been waiting for this moment to arise." ) After a brief search into what it was going to cost, I ended up using something in the public domain. On the other hand, whoever owns John Prine's songs let us use that for free. Maybe it's Prine hisownself. I don't know. Movies are tougher. I'm not sure of the rules. I've quoted movies a number of times in context and haven't gotten permission without a problem. I used a couple of quotes from a Random House book from 1961 in A Dirty Job. It took about five weeks and cost $100.00 -- which was reasonable. I've also received $50 here and there from people who used passages from my books in publications or on TV programs ( in Germany).

Fair Use.

I've just been doing quite a bit of research on this ... I've got a bunch of song lyric snippets, two full songs, and 1 movie quote, 1 tv quote. WTF? Could I make it more difficult?

But, Chris ... It seems like you should have been able to use that Beatles quote. I'm still trying to understand this, and obviously I'm not a lawyer, but a lawyer directed me to a legal site.

The Fair Use law allows you to quote small portions of copyrighted material without obtaining permission. I can't really find a hard/fast defintion of it, and I'm not sure it applies to commercial fiction. Still looking.

Quote:

Rule 4: The More You Take, the Less Fair Your Use Is Likely to Be The more material you take, the less likely it is that your use will be a fair use. As a general rule, never quote more than a few successive paragraphs from a book or article, or take more than one chart or diagram. It is never proper to include an illustration or other artwork in a book or newsletter without the artist's permission. Don't quote more than one or two lines from a poem. Many publishers require their authors to obtain permission from an author to quote more then a specified number of words, ranging from about 100 to 1000 words. Contrary to what many people believe, there is no absolute word limit on fair use. For example, it is not always okay to take one paragraph of less than 200 words. Copying 200 words from a work of 300 words wouldn't be fair use. Nor would copying 12 words from a 14-word haiku poem. However, copying 2000 words from a work of 500,000 words might be fair. It all depends on the circumstances. To preserve the free flow of information, authors have more leeway in using material from factual works (scholarly, technical, and scientific works) than to works of fancy such as novels, poems, and plays. This is true especially where it's necessary to use extensive quotations to ensure the accuracy of the information conveyed.

There's one scene in my book that can absolutely NOT be re-written, so I'm fucked if I can't get the permission.

Oh ... just found this article, might be worth reading. I am reading it now.

http://www.writing-world.com/rights/fair.shtml
_________________
My Book
My Myspace

chris wrote:

You have to write to the publisher. They usually have a permissions department. That department has a form. (Random House had their's on line.) You have to write to them and see if they are going to charge you. Songs are particularly sticky. You may end up paying a buttload for permissions. I originally used a line from the Beatle's Blackbird for the last section of Lamb (the line about "All your life, you have only been waiting for this moment to arise." ) After a brief search into what it was going to cost, I ended up using something in the public domain. Movies are tougher. I'm not sure of the rules. I've quoted movies a number of times in context and haven't gotten permission without a problem. I used a couple of quotes from a Random House book from 1961 in A Dirty Job. It took about five weeks and cost $100.00 -- which was reasonable. I've also recieved $50 here and there from people who used passages from my books in publications or on TV programs ( in Germany).

I play a mean Blackbird. I should record that.
_________________
Twitter: jefftunes

Re: Fair Use.

knikkki wrote:

I've just been doing quite a bit of research on this ... I've got a bunch of song lyric snippets, two full songs, and 1 movie quote, 1 tv quote. WTF? Could I make it more difficult? But, Chris ... It seems like you should have been able to use that Beatles quote. I'm still trying to understand this, and obviously I'm not a lawyer, but a lawyer directed me to a legal site. The Fair Use law allows you to quote small portions of copyrighted material without obtaining permission. I can't really find a hard/fast defintion of it, and I'm not sure it applies to commercial fiction. Still looking. Quote: Rule 4: The More You Take, the Less Fair Your Use Is Likely to Be The more material you take, the less likely it is that your use will be a fair use. As a general rule, never quote more than a few successive paragraphs from a book or article, or take more than one chart or diagram. It is never proper to include an illustration or other artwork in a book or newsletter without the artist's permission. Don't quote more than one or two lines from a poem. Many publishers require their authors to obtain permission from an author to quote more then a specified number of words, ranging from about 100 to 1000 words. Contrary to what many people believe, there is no absolute word limit on fair use. For example, it is not always okay to take one paragraph of less than 200 words. Copying 200 words from a work of 300 words wouldn't be fair use. Nor would copying 12 words from a 14-word haiku poem. However, copying 2000 words from a work of 500,000 words might be fair. It all depends on the circumstances. To preserve the free flow of information, authors have more leeway in using material from factual works (scholarly, technical, and scientific works) than to works of fancy such as novels, poems, and plays. This is true especially where it's necessary to use extensive quotations to ensure the accuracy of the information conveyed. There's one scene in my book that can absolutely NOT be re-written, so I'm fucked if I can't get the permission. Oh ... just found this article, might be worth reading. I am reading it now. http://www.writing-world.com/rights/fair.shtml

Commercial use is the key, K. My publisher has very deep pockets, they aren't going to leave their ass hanging out for a lawsuit from Sony or whoever owns the Beatles catalog now. Fair use for an academic paper and fair use for something you get paid for-- different. Give you an example. I read the script to Basic Instinct before it was ever filmed. The entire movie is built around Rolling Stones songs. The specific songs are named in each scene in the script. There's not one Stones song featured in the finished movie. Guess why?

Michael Jackson owns the Beatles catalog. He outbid Paul McCartney.
_________________
"Fantasy is an exercise bicycle for the mind; it doesn't take you anywhere, but it tones up muscles that might." Pratchett

deb wrote:

Michael Jackson owns the Beatles catalog. He outbid Paul McCartney.

Michael Jackson owns the Northern Songs Ltd catalog. George Harrison's songs are owned by the Harrisongs Ltd company (and therefore whoever owns that) and Ringo's are owned by Starkey Songs or something like that.

The Lennon/McCartney credit was part of the Northern Songs Ltd contract that the two songwriters signed. The deal meant that the two songwriters did not get much money for their songwriting efforts. It sucked ass.
_________________
Twitter: jefftunes

Quote:

Commercial use is the key, K. My publisher has very deep pockets, they aren't going to leave their ass hanging out for a lawsuit from Sony or whoever owns the Beatles catalog now. Fair use for an academic paper and fair use for something you get paid for-- different. Give you an example. I read the script to Basic Instinct before it was ever filmed. The entire movie is built around Rolling Stones songs. The specific songs are named in each scene in the script. There's not one Stones song featured in the finished movie. Guess why?

I've accepted the reality of the situation. I'm going to secure permissions where I can, and re-write where I can't, and hope for the best on the one critical part.
_________________
My Book
My Myspace

There is a book called The Copyright Permission and Lible Handbook: A Step by Step Guide for Writers, Editors, and Publishers, written by Lloyd J. Jassin and Steven C. Schechter.

Perfect! Thanks for that. Definitely worth the twelve bucks
_________________
My Book
My Myspace

Last night Bill Scheft was on Letterman. He regularly uses songs in his writing and in his new book Time Won't Let Me he used 3.

He spoke about contacting the rights departments at BMI for permission. A gently amusing story later he said it was a penny per song per copy of the book.

I'd suggest contacting BMI and ASCAP Rights department rather than the bands' lawyers. You'll probably get a better deal.
_________________
To Learn is to Know
To Know is to Love
To Love is our aim

~~~~~~~

Why should we bother with immortality when we are eternal?

Thanks for that! Sounds like a good deal to me.

You have to go with whomever owns the song's copyrights, so if it's the lawyers, it's the lawyers. ASCAP has a great website, you put the song info in and it will give you the name of the owner. Then you call them and ask how to go about getting permissions. I'm getting to be a pro at this.

If anyone is interested

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?mode=search
_________________
My Book
My Myspace

Re: Fair Use.

knikkki wrote:

There's one scene in my book that can absolutely NOT be re-written, so I'm fucked if I can't get the permission.

Same here, knikki.....it has EVERYTHING to do with everything.

Thanks for all your help here...it was on my LOOOOOONG list of to-do things as I finalize my novel for publication.

I too have made it incredibly hard for myself...lyrics are everywhere in my book---but only one line at a time. With the exception of an entire U2 song.
_________________
Everyday I write the book