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When is enough, enough?
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dougp



Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 2038
Location: right behind you
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juissez wrote:
dougp wrote:


...We did not go there to liberate the people from some meglomaniac despot. We went there, and intend to stay there for oil...


Please explain to me what this means if it is not an accusation of theft. Are you only suggesting our soldiers and the administration just get a warm and fuzzy feeling being in close proximity to the oil wells?



"Would you argue that the U.S. government is not in CONTROL of Iraq's oil?"

If you took the short bus to school, please let me know now, as I'm already having issues with poking fun at the sensitive. I'd hate it if I were known to kick around a mouth breather. If not, get a note from Mom that says she's given you permission to play with others on the internet.
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Mom says it's because you have dependency issues, and it was only a matter of time before you threw it away on some tramp.

Post Sun May 20, 2007 8:30 pm   View user's profile Send private message
juissez



Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 145
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Wow Doug. I thought you would be able to go much longer before having to resort to personal insults. For shame

Post Sun May 20, 2007 8:46 pm   View user's profile Send private message
deb



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 6325
Location: Montana
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FattyFattyPorkFace wrote:
With regards to troops and all this talk of timetables for withdrawal, I have to say that I am with the Bush administration for a change. It seems to me that setting a timetable is an ignorant and short-sighted option that does nothing but give terrorists and insurgents a deadline for when Iraq is handed to them.


They already have control.

FattyFattyPorkFace wrote:
We should instead be setting timetables for handover to the Iraqi security forces (like the British did recently south of Basra). This doesn't mean we leave, it means we have handed the main responsibility to Iraq. Then, and only then, can we consider troop withdrawals.


Did you never read the news about the insurgents who are within the "security forces" of Iraq in Basra? What about the turmoil that has existed since the Brits left? A timetable, or a "progressive withdrawl" will always be questioned because the shit is already there, and now it is a matter of keeping the troops fighting this excruciatingly losing battle alive, and the only viable (no pun intended) way to do that is to bring them home. I'd rather they had to lose their life safeguarding THIS country, rather than someone else's country, and especially so many who are so completely unconvinced that we're there for anything other than for them to aim bullets at.

FattyFattyPorkFace wrote:
Whether we like it or not, we are in this situation and we can't just walk away. I'm very disappointed in the political posturing that is using timetables for troop withdrawal as though it were just a chess piece for elections.


It is too late to worry about withdrawing from Iraq and using it as a political maneuver. It's too easy to state that it is a policital alternative, which has no chance of fulfillment once the candidate is elected. The fact remains that the people of the United States (and other ancillary countries), lied too by the US congress who couldn't be bothered to look at the documents they were presented, misled by the US president and the British Prime Minister, whose political aims were ominous and at every turn portended a horrific situation which we now find our troops in....the fact remains that the people of the United States speak overwhelmingly toward bringing the troops home. Now.

We will not be leaving turmoil in our wake. We will simply be leaving turmoil we cannot and should not attempt any longer to control. Did we create it? Perhaps, or perhaps we simply awakened that giant that was controlled by a dictator. But is it worth more lives of our soldiers? Maybe it would be worth the lives of those of the decision makers/liars that got us there in the first place. Of course, they try to avoid it at all costs, even if they make their "photo op" stops in a show of solidarity.

The question of whether we're there based on a lie, for oil, for the "betterment" of Iraq....We need to not be there.
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Post Sun May 20, 2007 8:46 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ferrit Leggings



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 2658
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fortune cookie wrote:

How do you suggest we handle the problem?


In Iraq we put our occupation to a vote of the people of Iraq and let them decide if we stay or go.

If we stay then they better well get in line with anything that we are trying to do there or if they do not cooperate after voting for us to stay then we leave taking with us every once of cash they have to pay our debts racked up while being there. Then we tax and embargo the fuck out of them. This will put there country back another 1000 years to where a majority of the mindsets of the people living there is anyway. Guns kill people but money or lack of it sends countries back to the middle ages.

If they want us to go then we go but we also come to an agreement that a certain amount of payment will come our way to pay for some of the costs of ousting Saddam. Granted we shouldn't have gone in there in the first place but we got rid of him so heck lets get some cash out of it.

The rest of the middle east can go screw themselves and their oil because the US will no longer take in their oil. It would be about time that some real sacrifices be made for the actual greater good by the people of this country. This would also mean rationing gas and oil but also looking for alternative fuel sources that are practical. Oil Companies will try and hike the prices of oil but a cap would be put on the price for a ten year period where research and development will be going on.

To conserve on oil no grocery bags will be made of it. Yes, yet another sacrifice for the American people where they will have to bring along a canvas bag to the market. Food will not be transported all over the country for the benefit of a Cali person getting the taste of a homegrown NY apple. They will simply have to eat the apples and fruit grown in state. Mass transportation will be expanded so that it is a viable alternative for people and not just a tiny short bus for people who used to ride the short bus to school. SUV's and large trucks will be only sold to people who actually use them like farmers, aka people who those things were made for and not soccer moms thinking that they need a tank to drive the kids to practice. IF the car companies have a problem with this that is their choice but when the rest of the country goes to alternative fuel sources they will be left out and so will their gas guzzling beasts which will rot in the backyards of millions of rednecks all across the country who cannot afford to drive them because of the cap being taken off the prices after ten years. In other words they will not reap the rewards of getting on the bus with the rest of us and be left to the side of the road to rust with no money. Basically we will resort to relying on our own resources and not the resources of other countries.

Terrorists and other unwanted people will not be able to come into the country because of the Armed forces protecting our actual borders and not being under the premise that Iraqi insurgents are going to swim across two oceans to blow us up. Air travel will be restricted to countries that harbor terrorists and it will be at your own risk. Again, in other words if you go there and someone wants to chop your head off then you are on your own because you went there at your own risk. This does not mean that the war on terror will stop but we won't feed that war either. Head will stop being chopped off if it doesn't result in a reaction from our government. That sounds harsh but any journalist knows that they take a risk going to these places. If you are going on vacation to the Middle East to Iran or Syria then you might want to think about France.

Suspected terrorists will be put on trial that are in our prisons. If they are found guilty then we will put them in cells with guys named bubba and give bubba a lifetime supply of Vaseline. If they are innocent they get a one way ticket back to their country. People who are in the US and are under suspicion of terrorism will also be put on trial and the same will happen because prisons are full of people named bubba, also being in the US is also a right and if a person came here just to fuck with us and blow our shit up then they can go back to where they came. We have enough people who like blowing up stuff and setting fires and that is a majority of the male population of America.


My plan would be to eliminate the need for oil and for meddling in other people's business. Teddy Roosevelt was a great president but the Monroe Doctrine needs to be put to rest and we need to take care of our problems before we try to fix other peoples'.


PS. Car companies will also have to put a cap on the prices of the cars made for alternative fuel for the following five years after the mass production of these cars takes place. What most people don't know is that people looking to buy a car that see the higher price for the more economical car will buy the less economical cheaper car because of initial cost. These people are among the 46 million without healthcare and the other aprox. 40 million or so that can't afford decent health care.
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Post Sun May 20, 2007 8:48 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
dougp



Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 2038
Location: right behind you
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juissez wrote:
Wow Doug. I thought you would be able to go much longer before having to resort to personal insults. For shame


A brazen attempt at avoiding the question put forth. I'll answer your retort anyway. Putting words in my mouth is personal. I have no trouble going for the lowest common denominator in a heart beat. Why should I?
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Mom says it's because you have dependency issues, and it was only a matter of time before you threw it away on some tramp.

Post Sun May 20, 2007 8:57 pm   View user's profile Send private message
juissez



Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 145
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Ferrit,

I am right there with you on the produce thing. I live near Atlanta and yet the Publix and other grocery stores nearby rarely have peaches from Georgia. Instead there are peaches grown in countries thousands of miles away. They never ripen correctly, as there are picked way to early so they can be shipped here in time. And in the rare times that there are Georgia peaches on the shelves, I am convinced that they have been shipped first to New York and then shipped back here. New York or whatever states these grocery stores have their home offices in.

Post Sun May 20, 2007 9:02 pm   View user's profile Send private message
juissez



Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 145
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Doug, I already answered your question several posts ago.

THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAQ HAS CONTROL OF THE OIL IN IRAQ

Post Sun May 20, 2007 9:03 pm   View user's profile Send private message
dougp



Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 2038
Location: right behind you
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Ferrit Leggings wrote:



Food will not be transported all over the country for the benefit of a Cali person getting the taste of a homegrown NY apple.



Fuck you. No guacamole for your Super Bowl Party! Laughing
_________________
Mom says it's because you have dependency issues, and it was only a matter of time before you threw it away on some tramp.

Post Sun May 20, 2007 9:04 pm   View user's profile Send private message
deb



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 6325
Location: Montana
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juissez wrote:
Doug, I already answered your question several posts ago.

THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAQ HAS CONTROL OF THE OIL IN IRAQ


Doug honey, isn't it cute to see innocence in this jaded era?
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"Fantasy is an exercise bicycle for the mind; it doesn't take you anywhere, but it tones up muscles that might." Pratchett

Post Sun May 20, 2007 9:15 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dougp



Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 2038
Location: right behind you
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juissez wrote:
Doug, I already answered your question several posts ago.

THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAQ HAS CONTROL OF THE OIL IN IRAQ


They can't control their own streets, let alone their oil supply. If the U.S. were to leave tomorrow, do you for a minute think that a halt of distribution would not occur? And if the U.S. left, when the dust finally settles, do you feel certain that those that gain control would continue to sell oil to companies that deal with us? For you to assert , "The government of Iraq has control of the oil in Iraq." is akin to me saying "Mickey Mouse runs Disneyland". If you truely believe, so be it.
_________________
Mom says it's because you have dependency issues, and it was only a matter of time before you threw it away on some tramp.

Post Sun May 20, 2007 9:17 pm   View user's profile Send private message
dougp



Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 2038
Location: right behind you
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deb wrote:
juissez wrote:
Doug, I already answered your question several posts ago.

THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAQ HAS CONTROL OF THE OIL IN IRAQ


Doug honey, isn't it cute to see innocence in this jaded era?



Deb dear, your spell checks not working again. IGNORANCE, not innocence.
_________________
Mom says it's because you have dependency issues, and it was only a matter of time before you threw it away on some tramp.

Post Sun May 20, 2007 9:19 pm   View user's profile Send private message
juissez



Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 145
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Yes, if we leave now much of the infrastructure of Iraq would collapse...including oil, their military, the hospitals, the police force, etc. That is the exact reason I think it is not yet time to bring our soldiers home. Thanks for proving my point, Doug

Post Sun May 20, 2007 9:23 pm   View user's profile Send private message
deb



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 6325
Location: Montana
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dougp wrote:
deb wrote:
juissez wrote:
Doug, I already answered your question several posts ago.

THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAQ HAS CONTROL OF THE OIL IN IRAQ


Doug honey, isn't it cute to see innocence in this jaded era?



Deb dear, your spell checks not working again. IGNORANCE, not innocence.


A rare occasion when you are right. That will knock one month off your quarantine.
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"Fantasy is an exercise bicycle for the mind; it doesn't take you anywhere, but it tones up muscles that might." Pratchett

Post Sun May 20, 2007 9:23 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dougp



Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 2038
Location: right behind you
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deb wrote:
A rare occasion when you are right. That will knock one month off your quarantine.



Sooner or later, the sun shines on every dog's ass. Very Happy
_________________
Mom says it's because you have dependency issues, and it was only a matter of time before you threw it away on some tramp.

Post Sun May 20, 2007 9:27 pm   View user's profile Send private message
dougp



Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 2038
Location: right behind you
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juissez wrote:
Yes, if we leave now much of the infrastructure of Iraq would collapse...including oil, their military, the hospitals, the police force, etc. That is the exact reason I think it is not yet time to bring our soldiers home. Thanks for proving my point, Doug



And your's is the mindset that will keep U.S. troops there for decades to come. As I said previously, those people don't live in our world with different labels, they live in a world unto themselves. At one time they were the greatest and most prospering of societies. Yet somehow they did not progress with time, and today they are angry and confused by what they had then, and the scorn and derision they face now. If it weren't for the oil under there feet, the world long ago, would let them go the way of the African interior, ignored.
_________________
Mom says it's because you have dependency issues, and it was only a matter of time before you threw it away on some tramp.

Post Sun May 20, 2007 9:37 pm   View user's profile Send private message
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