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American Fucktard
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LostInWalmart



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 1900
American Fucktard  Reply with quote  

Another stem cell bill heads for the presidential veto. NY Times article: http://tinyurl.com/2h7844

"Mr. Bush has said embryo destruction is a moral line that he will not cross."

Apparently killing thousands of Iraqi civilians, and so far more than 3,500 US troops in a poorly-justified, laughably executed war of choice is morally okay, but those frozen embryos headed for the Dumpster...gotta protect em.

Just my humble opinion of course.

B

Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:23 am   View user's profile Send private message
Aubie



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1428
Location: Bammer
 Reply with quote  

What I don't get is there are plenty of other areas for stem cells, but everyone focuses on embrynoic. Cord blood and adult stem cells are just as good, but for some reason we're all in the more politicized and more 'moral' debate of embryos.

If they put half as much time into the other forms of stem cell as they do arguing about embryonic, we'd probably be much further in the scientific process.

I also don't belive stem cells to be the magic bullet as some have been led to believe. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Plus there may be other means:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/21/AR2005082101180.html
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Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:29 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
LostInWalmart



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 1900
 Reply with quote  

My point is (I think we agree) that we should be exploring ALL avenues, not forbidding some because of religious views, or because of the cynical fear of voters who will be offended and thus not vote for candidates who support embryonic stem cell research.

Embryonic cells (based on my scant research and narrow knowledge) are so far more promising than the others, including adult and cord blood. But the research needs to take place. The overwhelming, hugely overwhelming, majority of the cells in question are destined for the great embryo freezer in the sky. Use them for something worthwhile instead of dicking around. Time's a-wastin'.

B

Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:43 am   View user's profile Send private message
Amigo



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 2499
 Reply with quote  

LostInWalmart wrote:
My point is (I think we agree) that we should be exploring ALL avenues, not forbidding some because of religious views, or because of the cynical fear of voters who will be offended and thus not vote for candidates who support embryonic stem cell research.

Embryonic cells (based on my scant research and narrow knowledge) are so far more promising than the others, including adult and cord blood. But the research needs to take place. The overwhelming, hugely overwhelming, majority of the cells in question are destined for the great embryo freezer in the sky. Use them for something worthwhile instead of dicking around. Time's a-wastin'.

B


Let's hear an "Amen!" and "Hallelujah!"

Now if that would only work... Rolling Eyes

Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:56 am   View user's profile Send private message
juissez



Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 145
 Reply with quote  

So I guess by your logic, Walmart, instead of killing those Iraqi people you spoke of, we should have used them for test subjects. I mean, as long as we were going to kill them anyway. Tens of thousands of test subjects in our grasp if only we had had the will to use them. Think of the lives we could have saved with all the information we could have gathered. The cures we could have discovered! Alas.

Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:06 am   View user's profile Send private message
LostInWalmart



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 1900
 Reply with quote  

Holy Crap! That's my logic exactly! Thanks for the clarity.

Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:56 am   View user's profile Send private message
Ginjg



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 6617
Location: Los Angeles
 Reply with quote  

I think it's more along the lines of the fruit industry here in California -
perfectly good fruit that's just undersized or slightly blemished is dumped in great huge piles in the desert to rot. It is illegal to distribute, though it could do much good.
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Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:51 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
LostInWalmart



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 1900
 Reply with quote  

I'm confused. Do we still get to kill the civilians?

kinda reminds me of Full Metal Jacket:

"How can you shoot women or children?"
"Easy! Ya just don't lead 'em so much! Ain't war hell?"

B

Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:39 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Aubie



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1428
Location: Bammer
 Reply with quote  

Considering the voting populous of America is mostly Christian (why Bush won the second time) politicians are going to be careful. The repercussions from such an actions could be tremendous. Stolen embryos for profit, people getting pregnant just to sell the embryos or to store them and use them later. Pharmacutical companies exploiting anything they can get their hands on. Like it or not, there are huge moral issues, especially for a Republican who is Pro-life, this is basically saying 'okay, take em and use em' for something they don't agree with in the first place.

Myself, I'm on the fence. I do not think stem cells are a magic bullet and will cure every ill in the world like many people have made it out to be. I think there would be some good things from it, but I don't think it's going to be the miracle everyone is looking for. I've had a close, young friend die of leukemia and a family member with Alzheimers and while I'm hopeful something would come along for it, I'm not sure what else I would give up for that to happen. Or to get my hopes up on a political issue close to an election year.

Ramble, ramble....
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Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:58 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Goudron



Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 2570
Location: near Cleveland OH
 Reply with quote  

I swear there is a method to harvest stem cells from human embryos without causing harm let alone killing the embryo. It's a check they've done for some sort of defect in the past. I wish I had a reference, but I read it in the paper not 3-4 months ago.
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Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:59 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Notdeadyet



Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 4056
Location: Midwest
 Reply with quote  

Believe it or not I also swear I read in a medical journal within the last two years that stem cells can be harvested from childrens baby teeth.... Shocked
You know, when they loose their teeth and there is the pulpy stuff in it?? those things...
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3643
Cool, huh? Cool
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Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:36 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Ginjg



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 6617
Location: Los Angeles
 Reply with quote  

there are stem cells available in many places, but the most pristine are embryonic. Since scientists only want the stem cells from embryos that will otherwise be discarded, it seems a waste not to utilize the resource.

Of course, freezer burn may be a problem.
Cultivating embryos for stem cell harvesting is a very different issue.
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To Know is to Love
To Love is our aim

~~~~~~~

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Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:09 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
dougp



Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 2038
Location: right behind you
 Reply with quote  

I'm for research. I'm not for subsidized research. I'm not for subsidized milk either. Or subsidized fuels. I would accept being personally subsidized, providing it was in the high six figures per year. If pushed on the issue, I could be persuaded to accept a higher amount.
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Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:39 pm   View user's profile Send private message
deb



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 6325
Location: Montana
 Reply with quote  

dougp wrote:
I'm for research. I'm not for subsidized research. I'm not for subsidized milk either. Or subsidized fuels. I would accept being personally subsidized, providing it was in the high six figures per year. If pushed on the issue, I could be persuaded to accept a higher amount.


consider yourself pushed.
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Post Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:41 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
lisa



Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 6789
 Reply with quote  

Are you specifically talking about taking stem cells from embroyos so as to save you know children's or adult lives?
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Post Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:53 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
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