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the magnificence of the conservative mindset.
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Mercureality



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 18
well, that was interesting, albeit unexpected  Reply with quote  

To be honest, I'm amazed that anyone bothered to be offended by the thread starter. By the by, I'm the author of the blurb that started this thread, hence the 1 and only other post by me, which explains my ineptitude with forumosity. Essentially, I was lambasting what I thought were the worst elements of the far right. The fact is, that most people are neo-liberals, or neo-conservatives: this means that they are really moderates, and with some exceptions, want the same things. I've voted conservative, I've mostly voted liberal - primarily because I'm very socially liberal. I'm also a walking dichotomy.

Anyway, on to lesson one: all politicians are dirty. If they didn't start out dirty, they become dirty via direct exposure to other politicians. Our system: log rolling, special interest groups, committees and committee selection all contribute to one huge legislative pig-pen of filth. Don't trust federal government, don't trust state government. In fact, I recommend highly not trusting other humans put in charge of your freedoms and well being. Unfortunately, well, this is the system we're working (note: working is a convenience term, and not meant to indicate any kind of real work, results, proper function or anything of the like) with.

Lesson two: please don't take me seriously - I don't take myself seriously approximately half the time. So by that measure, you can only really take me seriously half the time, which is functionally only half serious. Not so bad really.

Lesson three: if you're taking it personally, perhaps you should ask yourself why it bothers you? Because it is untrue? Because it was sarcastic and clearly didn't in any way present the positive elements of the conservative argument? Perhaps it bothers you because you feel some lingering guilt over a decision? This atmosphere is hostile toward conservatives in general. I'm fine with that. My family is conservative, and a great many others I've interacted with are conservative. I've also learned that many of the people that buy into conservatism don't do their research. I promise, the economics really don't make sense, they haven't worked to elevate the citizens of the united states, only the state (via global economy) itself. I am not a fascist, therefore, I do not approve of this. However, on the other side, most leftist economic ideals don't work either, they're just warmer and fuzzier than the right-wingish ideas. Eventually, and factually they're both wrong. Ultimately, some regulation is necessary to keep evil developers from paving over the wetlands and destroying that which would otherwise disappear. Ultimately, people are getting money...correction... a lot of people are getting money from our system that do not deserve a god damned penny of it, to the detriment of those in need, and those who pay for it. Anyway, that flew waaaay off target. Lesson three is that I've learned that if something offended me, or struck a nerve, the first thing I should do is look within and see why it effected me so. More often than not, the result is some useful introspection and analysis of myself and my motivations. I'm done being both pedantic and pretentious for one sleep-deprived 6am, I go.
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Post Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:55 am   View user's profile Send private message
Michaelabattiste



Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Long Beach, CA
oooh Shiny  Reply with quote  

So, does anyone else think Hillary's avitar is hot???
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Post Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:35 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dave



Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 451
Location: MA, USA
Re: oooh Shiny  Reply with quote  

Michaelabattiste wrote:
So, does anyone else think Hillary's avitar is hot???

I'm quoting this before he can go back and edit it out.

This is proof that both Tito and I are innocent bystanders and that Michaelabattiste started it..

Post Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:42 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Hillary



Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
 Reply with quote  

*sigh*

Think! Where's the beating stick?

Post Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:07 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Think insane.



Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1577
Location: Night's Plutonian shore
 Reply with quote  

Right where it always is my dear, in my hand, waiting to be used.

Michael my boy, play nice, be nice, give nice compliments, and I can put my beating stick away. I don't want to, but I will for the sake of all that is good. Now tell the nice lady you're sorry for being so forward.

Dave, you are not innocent. Neither is Tito. You are bad. Bad bad bad. Bad little monkeys. Back in your respective cages. Before I have to bring out the gimp. Again.
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Post Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:19 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
chris
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 3833
Location: People Republic of Northern California
 Reply with quote  

Is MichaelaBattista's avatar a kitty with a sniper rifle.

If so, that is one of the top ten coolest things for '04.


Okay, granted, not that great a year, but a kitty with a sniper rifle? Dude.

Post Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:56 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Lauren



Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Posts: 1582
Location: Massachusetts
 Reply with quote  

Yep, it sure is. You can find a larger version if you clicky here
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Well, I guess you left me with some feathers in my hand.

Post Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:05 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address ICQ Number
Sara Leigh



Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 7385
Location: Virginia
 Reply with quote  

Sean and I just noticed the sniper kitty in the Abominate thread. The blue star is a nice touch.

Post Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:28 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
conspiracies unlimited



Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 4281
Location: California
thanks and sorry  Reply with quote  

Thanks OH MIGHTY AG...
I put a lot of effort into choosing just the right picture

As for my comment about Hillary's Avatar. It was meant as a complimment (admittedly it was childish, but then again my social skills are somewhat lacking), and I apologize for having offended anyone...
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This is the Governor's wife. -- You mean she's not the hooker?
It's time to separate the awkwardly feminine from the possibly canadian

Post Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:37 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Tal



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 1692
Location: Not Massachusetts
Re: thanks and sorry  Reply with quote  

conspiracies unlimited wrote:

As for my comment about Hillary's Avatar. It was meant as a complimment (admittedly it was childish, but then again my social skills are somewhat lacking), and I apologize for having offended anyone...


No worries. If you hadn't have said it I would have. Lucky for me that you did otherwise I'd be tangoing with the Gimp rather than you. Smile
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Post Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:30 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Hillary



Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
It was taken as a compliment.  Reply with quote  

And thank you.

I'm just giving you garbage. As Think's taken it upon himself to be my goon patrol, I try to give him responsibilities. It makes him feel better.

Besides, the gimp needs airing now and again.

Razz

Post Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:32 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Hillary



Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
Re: oooh Shiny  Reply with quote  

Dave wrote:
Michaelabattiste wrote:
So, does anyone else think Hillary's avitar is hot???

I'm quoting this before he can go back and edit it out.

This is proof that both Tito and I are innocent bystanders and that Michaelabattiste started it..


Oh, and INNOCENT MY ASS. I'd believe a lot of things about you, Dave, but innocent?

RIGHT.

And Tito . . . let's not even talk about Tito. Friggin' lawyers.

Post Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:34 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lonely Tylenol



Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 157
 Reply with quote  

Quote:
My entire family is Republican. I am the first in a long line to vote for *gasp* a democrat, because I vote for the person not the party.


Applause for not voting along party lines, huzzah! Very Happy Okay, now I'll get serious.

Quote:
That being said, just because someone votes conservative does NOT mean they don't give a shit about anyone else, and wrapping it all up and putting a bow on it by saying that 'the conservative mindset' is wrong/selfish or that the people who vote that way don't care about social issues is - in my opinion - short sighted.


That is a matter of why they voted along conservative lines. While I am generally acceptant of people's opinions politically, I would call any idiot that voted for Bush because they wanted "one of their own" or Kerry would "ban the Bible" a conceited imbecile and/or a hypocrite, based on my mood. Let me get this in the clear. MORAL ISSUES ARE NOT A REASON TO VOTE A PRESIDENT IN! You vote a President in because they have a good economic plan, foreign policy plan, a social homeland policy plan, an environmental plan, among various other possibilities, BUT NOT JUST BECAUSE HE IS A FUCKING CHRISTIAN! Someone's religion should have no effect on how our country is run!

Quote:
I don't envy any President. You have only so much money, and you have a lot of people to take care of with it. Do we cut defense so we can dish out more money for soup kitchens, thus opening ourselves for another 9/11? Do we cut homeland security for more welfare programs?


Yes. Case in point: Canada. If we were able to strengthen diplomatic ties with, well, the rest of the world, we wouldn't need to be a military superpower to keep our people safe.

And here's another thing.... Having 300,000+ troops and all the nuclear weapons needed to start and finish World Wars III, IV, and V is NOT going to save someone from being hit by a plane. All it is going to do is blow the hell out of whoever did it. What is one to say then? "I'm sorry 3,000 people died, but at least we got the assholes that killed them, vote for a stronger defense"? How does that even work? We don't have a defense, we have an offense! What we need is better homeland security emphasis on the word SECURITY, NOT stronger bombers and bombs!

EDIT: On a final note, I would like for someone with a conservative mindset to explain how the war in Iraq is making us safer in our homeland. In 18 months of the war, much of what I have spend learning and discussing aspects of this war, I have failed miserably to find out how starting a war in foreign land has actually helped make us safer in the U.S. of A.

Quote:
Who the hell would want to make that decision? I wouldn't.


I just did it for you.

Quote:
And I don't care if the man in power is conservative or liberal . . . that's a shitty thing to have to decide. The President's job is to reason out priorities, and both lines of thinking boil down to the value of human life . . . hungry people vs. innocent people that work in a high profile skyscraper.


Once again, all one needs to do to find a viable solution is look up. Canada has, what, 30,000 troops, no nuclear defense, hardly any air force, and please, tell me, when was the last time they had a major attack on their homeland? Unless I'm missing something, the last time there was a major attack on their homeland was when Britian and France were fighting to OWN Canadian land before it was even a country! Yet we as Americans would be proud to announce five years without a major attack at any point in recent history, and we are the single largest military superpower in the world? Did I wake up in Bizarro World or has everyone just gone nutsy-kookoo?

Quote:
So tell me, which lives do you save?


You can save both.

Quote:
Something to keep in mind as you read this, btw, because I *know* I'm going to get abused for defending the conservative mindset . . . I'm voting for Kerry. These 'party slams' just piss me off, because I think we end up chasing our tails and getting nothing done when we say one party has it all right and the other wrong. That's rarely the case in life. Take a little from each and learn something from it. Then move on.


I'm not abusing you for defending the conservative mindset. In fact, this isn't even abuse. I'm being light on you.

I am simply doing this in light of [how] you defend the conservative mindset.

And I know you've already decided to take a backseat on this. Sorry, but I began writing this LONG before I noticed that, so don't bother replying if you do not feel the need arise.

Quote:
(Oh yeah . . . another point. The economics behind both parties are screwed, and pointing the finger at one over the other is ridiculous. Our economy goes in cycles. The estimated time line for any economic decision to catch up with the country is 8 years. That being said, Bush is right now wallowing in the Clinton administration's money decisions, just like the Clinton administration had to tackle Reagan's and Bush Sr's. Which means we'll really be seeing the ramifications of Bush's Iraq parade in another 7 years. Something to look forward to, kids!)


The thing is, people do tend to say the economy is influenced on the past administration. Bush Sr.'s definately was. The economy was completely trashed by the policies of "Reaganomics"; case in point: The economy flopped before Bush Sr. even had the chance to implement policies that would hurt the economy! Bush's raise on taxes was ultimately what cleared the way and actually started the Clinton Boom that made his Presidency such a smooth one (after all, to this day, the worst anyone has been able to say about him was that someone sucked his . . . well, you all know the story). I think he recieves more criticism over his affair than the fact that he bombed a total of four countries during his 8 years.

Now, I would be fair and tackle the various posts by this guest, but there are so many ramblings among them that I would not even know where to start. So I will just point out a few things I find highly ironic...

Quote:
The Republicans want us shaking-in-our-boots ... afraid of everything ...


Quote:
Somebody out there wants you to vote from FEAR ...


I don't even think a commentary is necessary. Doesn't everyone see the irony in this? Laughing
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Post Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:41 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Hillary



Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
 Reply with quote  

Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck. I said I wouldn't get drawn back into this. I swore it. But here goes:

You make excellent points. You might be 15, but your brain works far beyond your age. Congratulations.

However . . .

THIS:

I'm not abusing you for defending the conservative mindset. In fact, this isn't even abuse. I'm being light on you.

And THIS:

I just did it for you.

Are condescending.

Not good. Period.

Post Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:54 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lonely Tylenol



Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 157
 Reply with quote  

Quote:
You make excellent points. You might be 15, but your brain works far beyond your age. Congratulations.


Why thank you. Smile

Quote:
THIS:

I'm not abusing you for defending the conservative mindset. In fact, this isn't even abuse. I'm being light on you.


Okay, perhaps this one was mean, but it is true. For those that have not been in a relatively high-scale political debate, a heated debate with someone on the street (or worse, a heated debate with a madman on the street), or even a website where people actually come just to debate politics, it is much tougher than a simple discussion where your are completely anonymous to all. (Yes, I am aware that in my final example, you are also anonymous, but people still take it much more seriously and to a much higher degree than normal.)

When I said "I'm being light on you", I probably made a miserable choice of words, but the fact of the matter is, I am telling the truth on that. I kept the insults to a minimum and even tried to be polite... Although apparently that didn't work too well either. Perhaps saying I am trying to be friendly, despite being on opposing ends on a political debate would have been less insulting wording, but to be frank, my post was all but friendly.

My bad.

Quote:
And THIS:

I just did it for you.


I didn't think this was condescending myself. I was simply stating that I had already provided a solution to the dilemma you stated just before that, solution being provide a peaceful and optimistic approach to foreign policy and one would not need to hole oneself in a defensive fortress.

Perhaps the wording is off, but I personally didn't see that as condescending. Again, I apologize.
_________________
"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?" ~ Mahatma Ghandi

Captain Obvious! Up, up, and away!

Post Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:08 pm   View user's profile Send private message
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