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How the Terrorists Won - Chris's Rant
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The Democrats actively lost the election. Gave it right away.

There was not much doubt in my mind that the voting would pretty much go right along party lines. And it looks like it did at least from what I've looked at so far. Most of the people who crossed party lines were Democrats voting for Bush. Again so it looks right now.

Maybe the Democrats expected more of the newly registered to be of their mindset. What I do know is that plenty of my friends and family who voted for a Republican Governor in my home state of California voted for him because he would appeal to both parties. In this situation, Kerry didn't do that. My uncle and cousins, die hard conservatives all, won't even look at someone who can't make a descision and follow through on what they see as right even when it becomes unpopular.

Independents like myself and conservatives like my cousins were looking for a better choice than Bush. But all we had was Kerry, and he was not a better choice than Bush. Kerry could have talked about what he wanted to establish and change and fix, but he did not do that very much. It was Airman-Navyman again and again and again and again. They were like two puppies from the same litter.

You can roll your eyes, tilt up your nose, and oh-poo-poo he poor, misguided, confused, hoodwinked people who voted for Bush all you want, but the Democrats had two years to hook into the bad feelings Independents and Conservatives had towards the Pres, and they couldn't do it. It was almost like they felt their positions were so obvious they didn't need to do any convincing.

Bush gets the blame for all the dead troops, Iraqi civilians, lost jobs, etc. because he was the leader at the time. The Democrats still couldn't offer an honest to god alternative... just a choice. The devil we knew, or the devil we did not.

The Democrats fielded a poor candidate in a bad campaign. He took allegations of his wavering seriously, and addressed them. He wrapped himself in the flag when he should have been explaining how to clean it up a little. He didn't try to stand out, he tried to out Bush Bush. And that's why he lost.

With all the anger towards the President's conduct in the last two years of office-- an audience for change-- the Democrats still couldn't catch the disgusted Independents and Conservatives. Bad candidate. Bad campaign. No highest power on the planet for you.

The Democrats should have had this election. And that's from some one who voted for Bush.



As a P.S., the majority of his supporters didn't help either. They do their best to give the appearance the liberal progress has no room for Christianity. Nice way to alienate people living an life style different from yours. You're being hate mongers. Wink

Post Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:48 pm   
Woof!



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 185
Location: I'm in your closet. You actually wear this stuff?
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That last post was me, since you should sign what you write.

Forgot to login. Ha ha.
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Post Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:05 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Juliann



Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 22
Location: Cary, IL ("Chicago" to most people)
You're right (pun intended) we should have played dirtier...  Reply with quote  

...but playing dirtier (taking a page from the Rove rulebook) wouldn't have made things better. It just would have meant stooping to the level of those who believe that their way of thinking is the only God-given truth. Sorry, but I find that to be the essence of intolerance. "Moral values," as the term's being thrown about today, is a crock.

You mean to tell me that a supreme being, a "higher power," would find justice - moral value - in impeaching a President for lying about getting a little nookie on the side, but not be rightously indignant about lying to wage war on a soveriegn nation, under fall pretenses no less, resulting in the deaths of over 1,200 US soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqis? Where is the morality in that??

Lib wrote:
Chris, at least you can be proud of the state you live in.


We did our part, too...even got a new dem senate seat filled with an ex-Hawaiian (Barack Obama). Doesn't help dull the pain...but since a good portion of us are Cubs fans, well, we're used to disappointment.

Man, but we're singing the blues here in Chi-town anyway. Ugh. I'm having a "crisis of faith" in America.
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Post Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:05 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Taco Bob



Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 1201
Location: Palm Falls, Florida
vent  Reply with quote  

Quote:
Even if it was determined that you had to die this year, the chances of the causes of death being a terrorist attack is less than 1/100th of 1% . If your tag isn’t up for sure, if you’re in the mortality tables with the rest of us, your chances of being killed by terrorists are less than 1/1,000th of 1%, or, about one in every 87,000 people, and that’s based on the year of the worst terrorist attack in American History! (In any normal year the odds are about 1 in 100million, and that's only if you count getting your head cut off in Iraq.)

So what in the hell were you so afraid of, that you allowed the biggest political decision you were ever going to make, to be swayed by a terrorist? Shame on you.



While I agree with Chris that a lot of the people who voted for Bush did so out of fear of terrorism, I think the chances of terrorism in this country are going way up, and soon.
Before 9-11, the terrorists of the world had to train in poorly equipped, secret camps. Your basic hate-filled, religious fanatic shitkicker looking for the excitement, glory, and prestige of a terrorist lifestyle had to travel to Lybia, Afghanistan, or Syria. The only place to get real hands-on experience was Israel, home of the Israeli Army, known for their expertise in swift and brutal anti-terrorism techniques.
But all that changed after 9-11. Bush started a war in Iraq, despite the strong advice of many including the French, who’d been having disastrous dealings with the Arab world and it’s inhabitants for generations (btw - anyone remember who’d just had their asses throughly kicked in Vietnam before the US barged in?).

But when Bush toppled the regime of Saddam in Iraq, it opened up a golden opportunity for not only all the current terrorists of the world, but for any of the thousands of potential terrorists. Bush not only pissed off the entire Arab world by attacking Iraq, he also opened up the biggest and best terrorist training camp in the history of the world. Conveniently located in the middle of all the Arab countries, Iraq offers hundreds of miles of easily crossed borders, incredible amounts of munitions and arms just laying around for the taking, locals friendly, or at least tolerable, to their cause, and best of all - thousands of weary and disheartened Americans and British to practice killing. Which they do, every day.

Bin Laden must love Bush by now. No wonder he didn’t do something here like he did in Spain to sway the election. He’d had months/years to plan 9-11 and his subsequent escape, and it all went as planned. Then Bush unexpectedly opened up the World’s Largest Terrorist Training Camp. All those terrorists now training in Iraq would love to work for the most powerful and popular man in the Arab world someday, and Bin Laden will be able to put together a well-seasoned force beyond his wildest dreams. Cowboy Bush will never back down and pull out of Iraq, which will mean the Arab world will continue to hate America, and Bin Laden will have to strike again, and again.
When he sends his secret army here during the next four years, there’s going to be a lot of scared people in this country.


Looking for good news in this, let’s hope enough people have now become aware of what Bush and Cheney are capable of. Maybe be able to keep them under enough scrutiny that they won’t have such an open shot at their wartime economy agenda.

Post Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:27 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Woof!



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
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Re: You're right (pun intended) we should have played dirtie  Reply with quote  

Juliann wrote:
Ugh. I'm having a "crisis of faith" in America.


I guess I can see how you would feel that way, but I can't share your point of view.

Look at it this way-- 48% Of the US wanted the next 4 years to be more liberal. 51% Wanted the next four years to be more conservative. It turns out that the next four years will probably be more conservative.

Are any of you getting into your tanks? Loading up your shotguns? I don't know why you would be taking into account that the man who was closest to taking the most powerful poisiton on Earth in history didn't round up his supporters and try to declare the Blue State Republic. He called the guy who did win, and they talked a bit. Now they're relaxing, and in the next few days, they'll both be back at work. 60 million supporters each, and they're going to just get back to work.

In the same town. Sometimes, they'll be at the same table.

A challenge to the sitting power similar to what we just experienced in some Third World country? In China? In Saudi Arabia? In my opinion, it wouldn't go as smoothly.

Be disappointed your side lost. But don't doubt the US. It sucks less than most government systems.
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Post Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:31 pm   View user's profile Send private message
chris
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Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 3833
Location: People Republic of Northern California
 Reply with quote  

Anonymous wrote:

As a P.S., the majority of his supporters didn't help either. They do their best to give the appearance the liberal progress has no room for Christianity. Nice way to alienate people living an life style different from yours. You're being hate mongers. Wink



I don't think this is true. Believe me, I know that about 80% of my readers are liberals or at least they are socially tolerant enough to have a laugh at the conventions of religion, but I can also tell you that 90% of them are Christians. I know this because every other letter I recieve begins, "Although I am a Christian," or "even though I was raised in a Christian household". The idea that the Democratic party wanted to exclude Christians was propigated by the Republicans.

And it worked. I don't dispute that it worked, but on the issue of Christianity and inclusion, 20% of the Kerry voters were Black. I'd say you're safe to guess that 95% of African Americans are Christian, and that may be a low estimate.

No, the Dems didn't alienate Christians, the Republicans characterized Democrats as anti-Christian, and they did it effectively, the same way they effectively characterize Democrats as anti-gun in every election.

And as an addendum to my fear post in the Blog this morning, I would add that in addition to fear of terroism, the electorate reacted to fear of gays. I can't even fathom why it would matter to anyone if Gay people married or had civil unions, yet 11 states passed laws prohibiting it. So let me add fear of Queer Eye to my essay on fear of terrorism.

On the other hand, if you feel it is your Christian duty to vote for any pro-choice candidate, then you had to vote for George Bush, and no amount of effective campaigning would have changed your opinion.

Yes, the democrats blew it. I suffer from the same malady that they do. I expect my audience, my fellow Americans, to be intelligent, free-thinking people. We are blind that way. We don't see the benifit of depriving other people of their rights. The electorate that flexed their muscles yesterday ( and I'm going by the Republican's own assessment of their success) was composed of uneducated, poor rural whites. There's no need to elaborate on any aspect of that description, is there?

God, Guns, and Gays, that's what worked for the Republicans. But it does sort of underline that they, in spite of their unfunded program, need to leave a whole helluva lot of children behind, doesn't it? I mean, you don't want the backbone of your electorate changing its demographic, do you? Like for instance, changing themselves into an educated, rural middle class?

A heroes and messiah's are agents of change. There has never been a conservative hero. Anyone who thinks that Jesus was a conservative is not only uneducated, they are just plain delusional.

God bless America


Last edited by chris on Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:30 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Ferrit Leggings



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 2658
Interesting  Reply with quote  

Jesus Was A Terrorist
by Dead Kennedy's

Jesus was a terrorist
Enemy of the state
That's what the Romans labeled him
So he was put to death

He died for his beliefs
What's changed today?

Today bible-thumping cannibals
Reap money from his name
Buy cable networks & power
With old ladies' checks

If Jesus saw Pat Robertson
What do you think he'd say?
Tax free then re-write our laws
And sick 'em on you
Women don't control their bodies
TV preachers do

Censor everything from bathing suits
To science books
From the schoolroom to the bedroom
They want our thoughts - or else

They treat us like the Romans
Used to treat the Christians
Even some church-going folks are scared

Modern catacombs of fear
Built with money, power, and threats
Rock 'n Roll is labeled porn
Sell a record, you're under arrest

Instead of fighting AIDS
They try to stop us having sex
They brag that they won't quit
Till they take dominion over our lives

Is freedom of speech such a terrorist act
Is spiritual peace such a satanic threat
Believe what you want
But we'll fight to keep
Our heads from being cemented in your sand
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Post Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:03 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
makani



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Maui
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Bravo CM! I've been in a funk for months about the dumb-fuck moron-puppet from Texas leading in the poles. Today, I feel at a total loss. The world is toast. I appreciate your post today. Summed up my feelings to a tee.

Post Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:32 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Goudron



Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 2570
Location: near Cleveland OH
Getting back to how the terrorists won  Reply with quote  

Made me think about 9/11. They won that day, but not just because of the death and destruction they caused. I was busily working, even after hearing about the twin towers. They attacked the World Trade Center. That's an attack on our economy, if mostly symbolic. The best I could do I figured was to keep on working. But then the "leadership council" at our building decided everyone ought to go home because kids were probably going to be sent home from school.

So they kicked us out into the harsh world. I went home and walked to my son's school (3 blocks from Muraski Elementary, nice location Very Happy ). Guess what. The kids were going to stick it out. They had no parents to go home to for the most part, so they were staying at school.

Would you expect a hijacked airliner to come crashing down on Strongsville Ohio?? I didn't think so. But our economy was shut down for certain, and it took us that much longer to recover. Millions (billions? whatever...) of dollars spent on added security measures to make everyone feel a little more warm and fuzzy. Or is it to keep them in a state of fear?

The best thing you can do is go about your business. Go to a movie, go to work, GW said, but ph by the way, we're on an orange level terror alert, so watch your backs!
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Post Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:01 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
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makani wrote:
Bravo CM! I've been in a funk for months about the dumb-fuck moron-puppet from Texas leading in the poles.


This explains that strange "You forgot Poland!" comment during the last debate.

Post Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:11 pm   
deb_
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Sorry, that particular "guest" was me.

Post Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:36 pm   
chelle



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 31
Location: WV
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I recently picked up a CD that really embodies how I feel. A Perfect Circles eMOTIVe
One of the songs is an awsome re-make of John Lennons Imagine. I normally dont like remakes.....kinda like changing a painting but this one is very good and does it amazing justice. The album has several remakes about peace and social concience and a couple of new songs too. I really am hooked on "Counting Bodies to the Beat of the War Drum".

Here is a link to the Imagine song. http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=9738

Just click on either windows media or real player under the header.

Very dark and exactly how I feel.

Post Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:57 am   View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
FattyFattyPorkFace



Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 6381
Location: Michigan
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As I watched the news unfold regarding your election, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I've followed the campaigns quite well and even went so far as signing up to the Kerry-Edwards campaign and, until they blocked international web surfers, reading Bush's page too. I am devastated that George W. Bush has made it into a second term. I sit at home and hear our forces gearing up to send yet more troops to back up the forces in Iraq and I know some of their families...some are American, some British..it makes no difference; none should be there but now they are, they can't leave. It totally sucks...and now Bush is back, who knows what other unnecessary conflicts will arise....there was already a news headline on the BBC News website that read "British foreign secretary says an attack on Iran is out of the question"...where the fuck did that come from?!

In the UK, we've suffered from terrorism for many years at the hands of the IRA et al and at no point did our government consider a full scale military attack on Ireland as a viable solution. The only way the violence and terrorism has decreased has been by negotiation and not backing down because of it. To think that terrorists have actually swayed an election in the largest democracy in the world is awful; it says terrible things about how people value democracy or if they even know what it means.

I wonder if it would've been easier to disband the electoral college system and just hand votes to Osama, Saddam, Kim Jong Il, and ...ooo...let's say Khatami. After all, if it's fear of the actions these people make that decides the winner...let's just by-pass the need for terrorism and the unnecessary deaths and let them vote directly.

We have our general election coming up sometime in the next year or so and I am dearly hoping that the campaigns will be fought on the issues that face us aside from terrorism. Of course, it would be nieve to think that the candidates won't see terrorism and Iraq as hugely attractive issues...but it's a shame for democracy. Every day I hear people who say they don't vote because what is the point...well, by not even turning up just to spoil the paper, they aren't even counted as existing so far as the result goes. That kind of apathy apalls me when considering the people that never even get the chance to vote...and now, terrorism comes along and everyone is voting...but no one is taking the choice to rebel and show their disatisfaction by spoiling their papers if the candidates don't measure up. A lot of people don't seem to realise that the power they have and how to use it and of course, the government isn't going to educate them on the system because how can that possibly work in their favour...unless the people are scared. The people have the power, but they squander it so easily when faced with wardrobe monsters and spiders.

Everyone has the right to vote for who they want (although not everyone gets that right) and I would never put anyone down for the choice they make so long as it has been an informed and balanced decision and not just "my Dad votes that way" or based on the toss of a coin. Everyone has different priorities and their own life to live.

However, my own personal viewpoint; seeing Bush win ruined my day.

Sorry for the rant, guys. Good luck.

Post Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:30 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sara Leigh



Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 7385
Location: Virginia
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Join the club, FFPF. It ruined everyone's day and more over here. You summed it up very well, so I appreciate hearing our Compound's resident Brit's rant. I'm hoping your election will go better than ours. Can I vote?

Post Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:51 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
gretchenfaith



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 452
what??  Reply with quote  

The Bush people blocked international web-surfers? THEY BLOCKED THEM? I really thought my outrage capacity gauge had hit the top of the meter, but, apparently, I am able to become even more angry than I was 5 minutes ago. He prevents the international community from viewing information? Where are we living? Am I stuck in an Orwell novel??

Quote:
at no point did our government consider a full scale military attack on Ireland as a viable solution


that's because the rest of the world would never have forgiven you for depriving us of Guiness ~ Very Happy (sorry, I have to joke or I willl explode)
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Post Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:07 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
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