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L.P. Bowman



Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 334
Location: Southwest Oklahoma
pelosi  Reply with quote  

as I watched morning joe this morning reporting on our speaker of the house......all I could do is think "wow......this is one of our high ranking leaders?"...

she is shameful.....

Post Fri May 15, 2009 4:47 am   View user's profile Send private message
18Rabbit



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 1734
Location: WTF is wrong with you?
 Reply with quote  

I don't even care if she was or wasn't told. I'm much more interested in the fact that waterboarding was sanctioned and approved by the Bush administration than who was told about it when. This is more Republicans trying to take the focus away from the fact that, you know, Bush condoned torture and NO one did a fucking thing about it.

Post Fri May 15, 2009 5:11 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
LostInWalmart



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 1900
 Reply with quote  

torture for the sole purpose of justifying an illegal and clearly unjustifiable war in which 4,295 americans have died (so far).

so yeah, who gives a shit what Pelosi knew and when she knew it?

B

(she does appear to have been botoxed within an inch of her lifer, though)

Post Fri May 15, 2009 5:45 am   View user's profile Send private message
Watching The Wheels



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 3412
Location: DC
 Reply with quote  

Pelosi's an ass clown. I hate her.
Seriously, she needs to shut her ho mouth.

And if they're going to go through with prosecuting those who sanctioned torture/an unjustifiable war -- fine! -- by all means take her down too. Win-win.

Post Fri May 15, 2009 7:06 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Tito



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: is everything
 Reply with quote  

18Rabbit wrote:
I don't even care if she was or wasn't told. I'm much more interested in the fact that waterboarding was sanctioned and approved by the Bush administration than who was told about it when. This is more Republicans trying to take the focus away from the fact that, you know, Bush condoned torture and NO one did a fucking thing about it.


This is exactly why you should care if Pelosi knew. She was in a position where she could have done something about it if indeed she did know.

emphasis added to the "No one"

Post Sun May 17, 2009 12:24 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
zendao42



Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 13570
Location: Somewhere in a galaxy near you
 Reply with quote  

By that reasoning, we're all to blame that Bush & Cheney are still breathing... Rolling Eyes

Seriously, don't you get that this whole torture debate
is an attempt to draw attention away from Cheney's other crimes?

Post Mon May 18, 2009 12:10 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
LostInWalmart



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 1900
 Reply with quote  

hey look over there! Somethng shiny!

(quick let's pretend the shiny thing is more important than the chief executive authorizing torture...maybe no one will notice.)

Post Mon May 18, 2009 6:59 am   View user's profile Send private message
18Rabbit



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 1734
Location: WTF is wrong with you?
 Reply with quote  

Tito wrote:
18Rabbit wrote:
I don't even care if she was or wasn't told. I'm much more interested in the fact that waterboarding was sanctioned and approved by the Bush administration than who was told about it when. This is more Republicans trying to take the focus away from the fact that, you know, Bush condoned torture and NO one did a fucking thing about it.


This is exactly why you should care if Pelosi knew. She was in a position where she could have done something about it if indeed she did know.

emphasis added to the "No one"

Sure, I'll play, let's make some assumptions:


  1. That it would not have been political suicide for a democrat to oppose the republican king
  2. That she would not have been branded a traitor for not loving America enough to use "harsh interrogation techniques" that were approved by the government
  3. That she was in fact told these things in briefings by the CIA
  4. That these briefings were not confidential and that talking about them would not have been a national security breach.
  5. No one else was at these briefings because, you know, it's all her fault for not saying something

Then sure, she should have done... something.

My guess is that she probably was told and that the briefings were and still are classified and that no matter what she says or does about it, she's going to be raked over the coals for it. So yeah, I don't really care what she does because she's fucked either way.

It's still just an attempt to say "Please ignore the fact that we tortured people and focus on the fact that she was told and did nothing about it".
This is just like that fucking travesty of a trial about "Scooter" Libby which focused on the fact that "Holy shit he lied about who told him about the leak" instead of focusing on the fact that "OH FUCKING CHRIST, SOMEONE LEAKED THE IDENTITY OF A CIA OPERATIVE".

Post Mon May 18, 2009 8:02 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tito



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: is everything
 Reply with quote  

zendao42 wrote:
By that reasoning, we're all to blame that Bush & Cheney are still breathing... Rolling Eyes

Seriously, don't you get that this whole torture debate
is an attempt to draw attention away from Cheney's other crimes?


The thread's title is "Pelosi." It seems to me rather the attempts here are to draw the attention away from her.

18Rabbit wrote:
Tito wrote:
18Rabbit wrote:
I don't even care if she was or wasn't told. I'm much more interested in the fact that waterboarding was sanctioned and approved by the Bush administration than who was told about it when. This is more Republicans trying to take the focus away from the fact that, you know, Bush condoned torture and NO one did a fucking thing about it.


This is exactly why you should care if Pelosi knew. She was in a position where she could have done something about it if indeed she did know.

emphasis added to the "No one"

Sure, I'll play, let's make some assumptions:

  1. That it would not have been political suicide for a democrat to oppose the republican king
  2. That she would not have been branded a traitor for not loving America enough to use "harsh interrogation techniques" that were approved by the government
  3. That she was in fact told these things in briefings by the CIA
  4. That these briefings were not confidential and that talking about them would not have been a national security breach.
  5. No one else was at these briefings because, you know, it's all her fault for not saying something

Then sure, she should have done... something.

My guess is that she probably was told and that the briefings were and still are classified and that no matter what she says or does about it, she's going to be raked over the coals for it. So yeah, I don't really care what she does because she's fucked either way.

It's still just an attempt to say "Please ignore the fact that we tortured people and focus on the fact that she was told and did nothing about it".
This is just like that fucking travesty of a trial about "Scooter" Libby which focused on the fact that "Holy shit he lied about who told him about the leak" instead of focusing on the fact that "OH FUCKING CHRIST, SOMEONE LEAKED THE IDENTITY OF A CIA OPERATIVE".


Ok, I'll play.

[*]That it would not have been political suicide for a democrat to oppose the republican king

- so what? either she does the right thing or she doesn't, not what's expedient for her career. See "Ghandi" or "MLK."

[*]That she would not have been branded a traitor for not loving America enough to use "harsh interrogation techniques" that were approved by the government

- so what? either she does the right thing or she doesn't, not what's expedient for her reputation. See "Ghandi" or "MLK."

[*]That she was in fact told these things in briefings by the CIA

- this is the crux of the matter. If she was in fact told, then she should have done something.

[*]That these briefings were not confidential and that talking about them would not have been a national security breach.

- Then she should have worked behind the scenes, using the considerable power she had to stop the torture. Maybe she did. I don't know. If she knew, could have done something, yet didn't - and then lied about it - I don't know why anyone would think she was worth defending. Before you beat me up, please notice the "if."

[*]No one else was at these briefings because, you know, it's all her fault for not saying something

- so what? other people witnessing something evil doesn't relieve you of the responsibility for speaking up. Edmund Burke (is attributed to have) said "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Or women.

Regarding Scooter Libby. This thread is titled "Pelosi." One wrong doesn't justify another, but it can apparently be used as a distraction technique.

You don't have to defend a democrat to the death solely because he/she is a democrat. But there is hope for her if she did indeed lie, as there is precedent in lying and surviving. See "Bill Clinton." There is also precedent in standing up for what is right and surviving. See "McCarthyism."

Bottom line is that, if she knew, could have done something about it, and did nothing, then she is lacking the moral courage and integrity you should expect from a leader of a political party. Any political party.

Post Mon May 18, 2009 6:28 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
18Rabbit



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 1734
Location: WTF is wrong with you?
 Reply with quote  

You're funny, Tito. Comparing Pelosi to Ghandi was awesome.

Post Mon May 18, 2009 10:04 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
zendao42



Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 13570
Location: Somewhere in a galaxy near you
 Reply with quote  

18Rabbit wrote:
You're funny, Tito. Comparing Pelosi to Ghandi was awesome.

Like Ghandi was so fucking wonderful- don't even get me started on him! Rolling Eyes

Tito wrote:

The thread's title is "Pelosi." It seems to me rather the attempts here are to draw the attention away from her.


It's also not titled "MLK", "Ghandi", "Bill Clinton" or "McCarthy"-
but I bet you were the kid who wrote "Mickey Mouse" on tests when you didn't know the answer... Razz

Point is, she's not the one who came up with the technique
or even the BS war they're using to justify it, so WTF does it matter?

This the CIA we're talking about & I ain't forgot that Bush Sr. used to be part of it...

They'd have thrown her under the bus & continued on their twisted way-
I'd like to know exactly who could have been in a position to stop all this-
for all I know, maybe it's you...

Post Tue May 19, 2009 12:38 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
LostInWalmart



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 1900
 Reply with quote  

haha, throwing the light on Pelosi ... seems like the attention is being drawn away from Cheney and Bush. Wait, is that irony?

Post Tue May 19, 2009 6:32 am   View user's profile Send private message
mllefifi



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 8964
Location: Deleoware
 Reply with quote  

Irony is what happens when you eat WAY too much red meat.

(...which also causes lipidy and cholesteroly.)

Cool
_________________
"If you allow yourself to be offended, then you're a bit of [a] nitwit."
(Christopher Moore)


Last edited by mllefifi on Tue May 19, 2009 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total

Post Tue May 19, 2009 6:54 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Tito



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: is everything
 Reply with quote  

18Rabbit wrote:
You're funny, Tito. Comparing Pelosi to Ghandi was awesome.


Hey, if it's good enough for the illinois governor guy with the bad hair, it's good enough for Pelosi.

Post Tue May 19, 2009 7:27 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
deb



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 6325
Location: Montana
 Reply with quote  

Current problem with Pelosi is that she lied when she stated she unequivocally knew nothing about waterboarding as a sanctioned torture device, and then backtracking and saying she had been briefed on it as a "could be used" not "would be used" technique. Shut up, Nancy.

I don't care what political party a person is in, I have no room for cover your own ass politicians.
_________________
"Fantasy is an exercise bicycle for the mind; it doesn't take you anywhere, but it tones up muscles that might." Pratchett

Post Tue May 19, 2009 9:32 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
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