Christopher Moore Home Page

The bulletin board is currently closed to new posts. Instead, why not check out Chris' Twitter and Facebook pages?


bbs.chrismoore.com Forum Index -> Politics

Trivial conduct and over criminalization

  Author    Thread This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics. This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
Ginjg



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 6617
Location: Los Angeles
Trivial conduct and over criminalization  Reply with quote  

The conservative Heritage foundation runs a website called Overcriminalized.com:
Quote:
“Overcriminalization” describes the trend in America – and particularly in Congress – to use the criminal law to “solve” every problem, punish every mistake (instead of making proper use of civil penalties), and coerce Americans into conforming their behavior to satisfy social engineering objectives. Criminal law is supposed to be used to redress only that conduct which society thinks deserving of the greatest punishment and moral sanction.
But as a result of rampant overcriminalization, trivial conduct is now often punished as a crime. Many criminal laws make it possible for the government to convict a person even if he acted without criminal intent (i.e., mens rea). Sentences have skyrocketed, particularly at the federal level.


I agree that many things are indeed needlessly criminalized. However, they seem to have an oddly skewed sense of "trivial conduct"

They firmly oppose H.R. 3513: Prevention and Deterrence of Crimes Against Children Act of 2009 as described on their site
Quote:
"This bill would increase penalties for a variety of offenses relating to child pornography, sex trafficking and child prostitution, and rape."
What kind of minds consider this "trivial conduct" or "over criminalization."

Some of the other proposed laws they oppose for criminalizing trivial conduct address listed on their featured legislation page
hate crimes against the homeless
identity theft
coerced abortion
… and it goes on and on.

Interestingly, they mention "instead of civil penalties" but the heritage foundation is also on record against "frivolous lawsuits" and vilifies trial lawyers.

The HF also opposes decriminalization of marijuana, and claims a prolife stance. I guess that just applies to voluntary abortion, as they're clearly against criminalizing the coerced sort.
_________________
To Learn is to Know
To Know is to Love
To Love is our aim

~~~~~~~

Why should we bother with immortality when we are eternal?

Post Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:15 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Lavandula Girl



Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 1830
Location: A Connecticut Yankee in King Arnold's Court
 Reply with quote  

What the hell is a coerced abortion?!
_________________
"No, I'm not a pessimist. At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."

Post Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:55 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Ginjg



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 6617
Location: Los Angeles
 Reply with quote  

Lavandula Girl wrote:
What the hell is a coerced abortion?!
Quote:
H.R. 1822: Susan B. Anthony and Frederick Douglass Prenatal Nondiscrimination Act of 2009

Sponsor: Franks (R - AZ)

Official Title: A bill to prohibit discrimination against the unborn on the basis of sex or race, and for other purposes.

Status:
3/31/2009: Introduced
3/31/2009: Referred to House Judiciary Committee

Commentary:
This bill would prohibit performing an abortion “knowing that such abortion is sought based on the sex, gender, color or race of the child, or the race of a parent of that child,” using force or the threat of force to coerce such an abortion, and soliciting or accepting funds to finance such abortions. Violations would be punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment of up to 5 years.
It's really a prototype anti-eugenics bill.

it's likely contradictory to Roe v Wade as it does make it necessary for a reason to be stated when electing for an abortion and allows a third party to invalidate that reason. However, evidently some young women are forced by family to abort their multiethnic fetuses. - that isn't trivial conduct

(*I avoid the word biracial/multiracial/interracial, etc. as it implies a human/nonhuman hybridizing).
_________________
To Learn is to Know
To Know is to Love
To Love is our aim

~~~~~~~

Why should we bother with immortality when we are eternal?

Post Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:15 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Kar98



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 3170
Location: Dallas, Texas
 Reply with quote  

Quote:
"This bill would increase penalties for a variety of offenses relating to child pornography, sex trafficking and child prostitution, and rape."


Murphy: Do not kill, do not rape, do not steal, these are principles which every man of every faith can embrace.
Connor: These are not polite suggestions, these are codes of behavior and those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost.
Murphy: There are varying degrees of evil, we urge you lesser forms of filth not to push the bounds and cross over, into true corruption, into our domain.
Connor: For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see we three. And on that day, you will reap it.
Murphy: And we will send you to whatever god you wish.
_________________
It finally happened. My conscience stopped working. I've never felt so free.

Post Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:53 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Watching The Wheels



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 3412
Location: DC
 Reply with quote  

Ginjg wrote:
This bill would prohibit performing an abortion “knowing that such abortion is sought based on the sex, gender, color or race of the child, or the race of a parent of that child”

Confused

"Sorry. Can't have an abortion. You just want to kill a Latino baby."
"...but I'm Latina!!"
"I see your lips moving, but all I hear is: 'I enjoy killing Latino babies, babykiller."
_________________
Homeless people need more seasoning, use bath salts.

Post Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:02 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Lavandula Girl



Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 1830
Location: A Connecticut Yankee in King Arnold's Court
 Reply with quote  

Ginjg wrote:
Lavandula Girl wrote:
What the hell is a coerced abortion?!
Quote:
H.R. 1822: Susan B. Anthony and Frederick Douglass Prenatal Nondiscrimination Act of 2009

Sponsor: Franks (R - AZ)

Official Title: A bill to prohibit discrimination against the unborn on the basis of sex or race, and for other purposes.

Status:
3/31/2009: Introduced
3/31/2009: Referred to House Judiciary Committee

Commentary:
This bill would prohibit performing an abortion “knowing that such abortion is sought based on the sex, gender, color or race of the child, or the race of a parent of that child,” using force or the threat of force to coerce such an abortion, and soliciting or accepting funds to finance such abortions. Violations would be punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment of up to 5 years.
It's really a prototype anti-eugenics bill.

it's likely contradictory to Roe v Wade as it does make it necessary for a reason to be stated when electing for an abortion and allows a third party to invalidate that reason. However, evidently some young women are forced by family to abort their multiethnic fetuses. - that isn't trivial conduct

(*I avoid the word biracial/multiracial/interracial, etc. as it implies a human/nonhuman hybridizing).


Jesus. That's just.... Jesus. I need to puke now.
_________________
"No, I'm not a pessimist. At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."

Post Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:16 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Ginjg



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 6617
Location: Los Angeles
 Reply with quote  

Watching The Wheels wrote:
Ginjg wrote:
This bill would prohibit performing an abortion “knowing that such abortion is sought based on the sex, gender, color or race of the child, or the race of a parent of that child”

Confused

"Sorry. Can't have an abortion. You just want to kill a Latino baby."
"...but I'm Latina!!"
"I see your lips moving, but all I hear is: 'I enjoy killing Latino babies, babykiller."

Only if the mother said she wanted to abort because it was a latino baby. Judging from the synopsis, It's not a well crafted piece of legislation.
As I said,
Quote:
it's likely contradictory to Roe v Wade as it does make it necessary for a reason to be stated when electing for an abortion and allows a third party to invalidate that reason.


But to oppose it on the grounds that it criminalizes trivial conduct? Seriously?
_________________
To Learn is to Know
To Know is to Love
To Love is our aim

~~~~~~~

Why should we bother with immortality when we are eternal?

Post Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:01 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
  Display posts from previous:      
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics. This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.

Jump to:  


Last Thread | Next Thread  >

Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 
Templates created by Vereor and Ken