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AG & e-books
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Tito



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: is everything
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buh-bye.

Last edited by Tito on Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:12 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Boota



Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 830
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
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girlEgirl wrote:
but the free streaming sites are like listening to the radio aren't they? and just like listening to the radio, they have pop ups and commercials . i mean when i was a kid we were so poor we didn't even have running water, but i used to tape songs off the radio and from my friends cassettes onto blank cassetes. wasn't that basically the same thing?

also i think the problems that you are describing with the music industry have been around long before the internet came into play. i think that generic mainstream, "take no chances music" has always been easier to market than cool underground stuff because most people are essentially idiots. i mean bush got voted in at least once, right? and i think a lot of fantastic underground musicians tried and failed to make money before the internet and people like me that listen to music online because we have to have high-speed anyway so our kids can keep up at school, but NEVER had the money to buy cd's anyway should get to hear good music too. i really think that the economy has as much to do with it as music sharing.

but then again i do see your point scott and i know how frustrating it can be to be too busy with the constant stress of taking care of you're family to nurture you're art. speaking of which...is there a link to you're music on your' face book page?


For the top tier artists, you're right, that has often been the case. But with the advent of "free music" on the internet the small record companies, the independents who would take the chance on a non-mainstream artist, are going out of business left and right. How can you sell any product when people who actually purchase it are looked at as suckers? Why pay for what can be gotten for free?

As far as being too busy, that's not the problem. I'm extremely busy but I can find the time if I need to. There is simply no reason to do it anymore. Why should I invest several thousand dollars of my own money into a recording that will sell enough to make back half my money and everyone else will just steal it? The big evil record companies are no different than me, except in scale. I lose thousands, they lose millions the same way.

I don't have any links to my music on Facebook, but we have a band Myspace page that is still up, even though we broke up last year. There are a couple videos and four songs. www.myspace.com/fetishrock

I'm still working on music, but I refuse to put any more money into releasing CD's. I'm making five different records by myself, all different styles. I will persevere as a musician because I HAVE to create. It tries to burn its way out if I stifle it for too long. But there is no way for me to make any money off of what I do. I can give it away and get a lot of exposure. My band got TONS of exposure through downloads in several countries. Exposure doesn't pay for rent, utilities, and studio time. I used to make a living as a musician, but I can't anymore and the internet is a large part of that. My skills and talents have no value anymore.
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:15 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Boota



Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 830
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
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Tito wrote:
Boota wrote:
I wasn't trying to earn points. Lady Gaga, regardless of her musical background, makes fluff, flavorless music. And even if you like Lady Gaga, do you want everything to be Lady Gaga? Because that's where it's heading. In the world of publishing and recording the law will come down to :Be THIS or be gone."

Technology is not always progress.


I disagree. I think the technology out there and the internet opens up music and literature to potentially thousands of new artists and writers who may have been too "different" for mainstream recording companies and publishers. I think there will be a bit of a renaissance, maybe even a return to patronage of some sort. The difficult thing will be marketing. But if youtube videos can go viral, so can music and ebooks. I can find much more new and different music searching itunes now than I ever could browsing through a record store. Same with amazon and ebooks. A lot of it is crap, yes, but I'd rather decide that for myself than have a corporation decide for me.


For the most part, you can't make a living that way. I'm not talking about being a millionaire, I'm talking about even being able to afford to continue making music. It opens up artists who are willing to give their work away with no hope of compensation. If you are one of the lucky ones, you'll get a chance to make money, but most of them, even famous viral video artists, make zilch from their work. You can be famous and not have a damn dime in your pocket.
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:19 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
chris
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 3833
Location: People Republic of Northern California
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simba major wrote:
And what about all the piracy which is so easy with these formats? Don't you see that having any effect at all?


Exactly. Acting like people won't pirate books to rationalize your own convenience is disingenuous. I'm not saying for a second that it can be stopped, but let's not pretend it's not going to happen, and it's not going to
affect the artist. And the "everyone will have a chance now" argument denies all those people in the middle, who are barely making it as authors now. They are back to waiting tables or selling cars. If it was me, I'd give up. Writing is too fucking hard and takes too long to learn to not have the hope of making a living at it.

There will be a shitload of noobs, and the amount of crap you are going to have to wade through to find something good, well, good luck with that. Doubt it? Wade through the garage bands on MySpace to find what you want to listen to. Oh, and in five years, go back and see if they have a second record? A third?

It's going to happen, I have no doubt about it. But it's going to kill the novel as we know it. Like I said before, it's probably time. It was probably not very pleasant to be in the buggy whip business the first time a Ford came down the street, or in gas lamp business when the cities got wired for electricity.

Already for every writing student who wants to write novels, there are six who want to write screenplays, or make movies, or have no sense whatsoever of what story-telling is. No one is going to want to write a book writing a book isn't a thing you do. You know, like learning blacksmithing.

Neal Stephenson told me that he thought we might have to go work at Burgerking for a few years until people got tired of reading the crap that e-books would allow. (Nearly his exact words.) I'm hoping he's right, and we only have to go do that for a few years.

Oh well. It's been a great run for me.

Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:22 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Ginjg



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 6617
Location: Los Angeles
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With the exceptions of music boxes (which were essentially just "samples") all music was performed live and any income beyond performance was from sheet music sales until the late 1800s. Then came the player piano in the 1860s, followed by the phonograph in 1877, and music has become more and more homogenous and taken further and further out of the control and pocketbooks of musicians.

And don't be fooled by Pandora's "music genome". They generally don't accept music from indy artists.
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Last edited by Ginjg on Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:26 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
chris
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Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 3833
Location: People Republic of Northern California
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Boota, sounds like we were on the same page, there.

Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:27 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Tito



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: is everything
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buh-bye.

Last edited by Tito on Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:31 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
simba major



Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 626
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Tito wrote:
Thieves will steal, no matter the format.


It was harder when you had to photocopy.

Quote:
There is always opposition to progress.


You call this progress?

Technologically sure, but in terms of the big picture? Will it make us better off?
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:34 pm   View user's profile Send private message
simba major



Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 626
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Tito wrote:
Boota wrote:
For the most part, you can't make a living that way. I'm not talking about being a millionaire, I'm talking about even being able to afford to continue making music. It opens up artists who are willing to give their work away with no hope of compensation. If you are one of the lucky ones, you'll get a chance to make money, but most of them, even famous viral video artists, make zilch from their work. You can be famous and not have a damn dime in your pocket.


There are broken dreams in every creative industry but those, such as yourself, who have the burning desire to create, will persevere and create.


He just told you that he can't.
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:38 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Boota



Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 830
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
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With eBooks, one thing will always keep me coming out against them, even if they magically find a way to solve the piracy issue: I like books. I like to hold them, stack them, build shelves for them. A book is the perfect delivery system for a story, much like a cigarette is a perfect nicotine delivery system. Maybe you can get your nicotine in a pill, but it's just not as cool. (Nice cigarette analogy from a rabid non-smoker, huh?)

I hate that part of my contract in self-publishing through Authorhouse requires that I allow them to sell an eBook version of my book for a year. I had to weigh the pros and cons of not releasing the book and allowing an option for someone to make it available and take money from me. It will happen, just a matter of time.

Granted, I am one of the people who has taken advantage of the ability to self-publish in a rather easy manner. I'm part of the rabble. But that is as much a curse as a blessing. My books are out, but generally looked down upon immediately because of how I put them out. And it's not the fault of my work. I have faith in it, and reviews and criticism have reinforced my opinions. What makes my books suspect is the tons and tons of crap that are published the same way. I'm a very discriminating creative guy. I'll throw something out that isn't up to par. Not everyone does that. Some people will submit anything, and a lot of companies, Authorhouse included, will publish anything. I can't blame anyone who is suspect of my work when I see some of what is out there. POD and eBooks have earned the stigma. It's not always right, but it's right often enough.
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:46 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Boota



Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 830
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
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Tito, my point was that I used to make my living off of music. The changes in technology have made these things happen. You buy music downloads? You're part of a small percentage. Most people, the vast majority, steal it.
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:51 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
simba major



Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 626
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Boota wrote:
With eBooks, one thing will always keep me coming out against them, even if they magically find a way to solve the piracy issue: I like books. I like to hold them, stack them, build shelves for them. A book is the perfect delivery system for a story, much like a cigarette is a perfect nicotine delivery system.


. . . which might be the only hope we have.

Kids (who buy most of the music) listen to tons of it. It would cost them more money that they can possibly lay their hands on to pay for it.

Books are different. Most people do not read all that many books. Paperbacks are pretty affordable, about the price of a movie, more or less. Reading a book a week is affordable for most people.

E-readers aren't that great, and they're sill pricey. And the experience is different. I think that most casual reader would rather buy the odd paperback and read it comfortably than shell out a couple of bills for a Kindle and read even a pirated book on that.

No-one picked up on my encryption suggestion, I supposed because they figure that anything can be cracked, but 128 bit encryption can't, to my knowledge.

I use Cubase music software and it's pretty expensive, but I've never come across a pirated version, same with the Native plugins. They identify with a dongle and the uniquely numbered processor. I doubt the CIA could break it. Surely they can do something like that with iPods, etc. for downloads if the industry gets organized.

I'd love to hear someone weigh in on this who knows something on the subject. Any computer guys in the house?[/i]
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:09 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Tito



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: is everything
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buh-bye.

Last edited by Tito on Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:57 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tito



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: is everything
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buh-bye.

Last edited by Tito on Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:58 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
simba major



Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 626
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Tito wrote:
simba major wrote:
Tito wrote:
Boota wrote:
For the most part, you can't make a living that way. I'm not talking about being a millionaire, I'm talking about even being able to afford to continue making music. It opens up artists who are willing to give their work away with no hope of compensation. If you are one of the lucky ones, you'll get a chance to make money, but most of them, even famous viral video artists, make zilch from their work. You can be famous and not have a damn dime in your pocket.


There are broken dreams in every creative industry but those, such as yourself, who have the burning desire to create, will persevere and create.


He just told you that he can't.


No he didn't. He said he couldn't make a living at it. He never said he wouldn't continue to make music.


And you think it's progress when it means that a professional musician has lost his ability to make a living at it? But, yipee, he can still be an amateur?

You've read a professional writer (AG) and a professional wirter/musician (Boota) telling us that it's a problem for them (potentially, down the road for AG) and right now for Boota, and that's okay with you?

I used to be a professional musicain, and I'm still in touch with lots of them. I also know some executives for a couple of major labels, and this new technology is screwing them up, musicians and record companies big time.

It just kills me that this is all okay with anybody.
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There is nowhere I would be than right here, right now, doing exactly what I'm doing.

Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:07 pm   View user's profile Send private message
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