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AG & e-books
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lisa



Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 6789
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Hmmmm. Albert Einstein. Freak.
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Post Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:19 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
chris
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Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 3833
Location: People Republic of Northern California
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Tito:

Regarding your accounting, and sales that aren't sales. In music, which I think is the analog for books, I have several friends who were making tons of money on royalties from recordings, who suddenly weren't. They thought they were finished touring, now they have to go back out and they tour at least three months a year. Frankly, some of them are too old to be doing it.

These are guys who wrote songs that are classic, house-hold name, American classic rock songs that sold year in and year out, until piracy happened.

It's not theoretical, it's not speculative, it's real, concrete numbers -- sales that went away because of internet piracy. I won't mention names because that would be wrong, so you'll have to trust me that I'm not bullshitting. There is no way that this is good for the artist. No fucking way.

The market has not taken care of it. Ingenious greed has not made up for it, except that concert tickets are $175.00 now. I trust you guys aren't going to pay that kind of money to hear me talk about my neudicles.

Post Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:17 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
chris
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Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 3833
Location: People Republic of Northern California
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By the way, I got an e-mail from a guy about four hours ago saying, basically, "I was going to buy the e-book to your book, but it's as much as a hard cover. Your publisher knows it can be pirated, right?"

All that is, is someone justifying stealing. The greedy publishers are asking too much. They don't have the high costs of production. They don't have the high cost of distribution. So they're just pocketing that money, right?

Uh, nope. For one, as a percentage, I make way, way more on e-books, because agents saw this coming and used that same arguement. So the publisher has to pay ME (read any author) the same amount on an e-book sale that they do on a trade paperback., in real dollars, not percentage. PR, advertsing, promotion, same amount. Copy editing, editing? Same amount. No, the paper doesn't cost as much, the shipping, but the retail percentage to the reseller, same amount. And we already know that by leveling retail pricing, Amazon was actually losing money on it's $9.99 pricing model. But now people expect books to be $9.99 or less, just like they expect music to be free. And soon, books to be free.

Intellectual property with absolutely no value. As they say, "Information wants to be free." We're all just being greedy, wanting to be paid for work that has no value. And we were just too slow and dimwitted to be able to change with the paradigm, to step out of the way of the comet of a completely amoral, theft-based system. Why didn't we adapt? After all, there are so many other ways to apply your skills as a novelist. Like, uh, I will totally make a great 60 year old waiter.

Oh well.

Post Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:40 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
girlEgirl



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 6412
Location: olympia, wa
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well all you musician types can feel safe in the knowledge that i still can't figure out how to download or burn music effectively. and as for e-books, i just love regular books too much, although since i only buy used books i don't think that it matters how i feel on the subject...


but i am curious about you guys feel about free streaming "radio" sites? or libraries for that matter? where you can get all media for free...
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Post Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:29 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tito



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: is everything
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buh-bye.

Last edited by Tito on Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:19 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
zendao42



Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 13570
Location: Somewhere in a galaxy near you
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Folks, it's not hopeless- your target audience now is collectors & hedonists-
some people still want something they can hold in their hands...

I have folks coming into my store to play RPGs pretty much every day-
these ain't computer games, they're cards & board games- & guess what?

My customers read & I will be selling your books in my store by next month...

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:08 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Boota



Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 830
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
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I have hope for books simply because so many people like them as compared to reading on a computer screen, but it is a serious problem should the pendulum swing much further. As a musician I got a first hand look at what the digital age meant for my chosen field, so I am very skeptical over what the digital age means for my second chosen endeavor. I trust in human nature and human nature says to get something for nothing. The internet has made it so easy that people who would never dream of walking out of a store with an item stuffed under their shirt will sit at home in front of the their computer and steal thousands of dollars on a daily basis.

girlEgirl, I have no problem with libraries. They buy their books and let the public use them. Not keep them. But I also know people who borrow movies and CD's from the library just to copy them. As far as streaming radio, if they pay the artist royalties that is perfectly fine. But if they do they won't be around long because someone else isn't and they can afford to operate without that pesky overhead.
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Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:24 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tito



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: is everything
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buh-bye.

Last edited by Tito on Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:50 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
simba major



Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 626
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Hmmmmm.

Tito wrote:
Ok, here's a possible albeit repugnant solution:


Repugnant?

This I gotta hear.

Quote:
Get the lawyers involved. Class action types of lawyers. Collection agency types of lawyers. Make them agencies for artists. The attornies could identify illegal downloaders (the millenia whatever act I believe gives copyright holders subpoena powers in infringement cases) and start sending out letters and actually collect on them. The big companies are already doing this. The fines are a thousand or two thousand dollars per downloaded song. There's potential big money here and where there's big money there are lawyers.


Making lawbreakers accountable for their crimes? Giving meaningful redress to the victims? Allowing the creaators of intellectual property to maybe . . . make a living? Shocked

How repugnant!

To quote our host, "Fool!" Razz


Calm down, people, it's all about the signature lines
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Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:19 am   View user's profile Send private message
Tito



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: is everything
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buh-bye.

Last edited by Tito on Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:36 am   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
simba major



Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 626
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Tito wrote:
Sorry. You have to wait for 2011. The 2010s have already been awarded.



Interesting.

The judge who gave himself the award, making up the rules as he goes, has declared the contest for 2010 closed when the year is only half over.

Hmmmmmm.

But I will not judge you too harshly seeing as it's obviouosly A DIRTY JOB at which YOU SUCK (judging from your rather pedestrian, not to mention puerile, use of "BITE ME"), and it's no FLUKE that you so desperately squirm to avoid an honest contest (in which you would, unquestionably) be led like a LAMB to the slaughter). Razz
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Last edited by simba major on Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:00 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Wingnut



Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 2602
Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia
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simba major wrote:

Making lawbreakers accountable for their crimes? Giving meaningful redress to the victims? Allowing the creaators of intellectual property to maybe . . . make a living? Shocked

How repugnant!

To quote our host, "Fool!" Razz


Calm down, people, it's all about the signature lines


At risk of defending Tito (gods forbid) I think the repugnant part was the part about using lawyers. Not the rest of it. Just sayin'. Very Happy
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Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:06 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
simba major



Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 626
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Wingnut wrote:
simba major wrote:

Making lawbreakers accountable for their crimes? Giving meaningful redress to the victims? Allowing the creaators of intellectual property to maybe . . . make a living? Shocked

How repugnant!

To quote our host, "Fool!" Razz


Calm down, people, it's all about the signature lines


At risk of defending Tito (gods forbid) I think the repugnant part was the part about using lawyers. Not the rest of it. Just sayin'. Very Happy


Could be, but it's hard to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone who doubts the efficacy of rhino rape.

That Boota's a genius.

But there I go being unctuous again. Cool


(Summer vacation just started and I have a grin on my face that just won't quit. Absolutely EVERYTHING is fun when you've got a GET OUT OF JAIL FREE card for TWO WHOLE MONTHS in your back pocket.
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Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:16 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Tito



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: is everything
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...

Last edited by Tito on Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:23 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tito



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: is everything
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buh-bye.

Last edited by Tito on Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:32 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
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