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Let's discuss immunization
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simba major



Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 626
Re: Let's discuss immunization  Reply with quote  

Kar98 wrote:
Ginjg wrote:
Did your parents invest in your shots?


All my kiddie shots were paid for by the east German national healthcare system, and I still got the shot book. Came in handy to still have that too.

Quote:
What are your thoughts?


If you're one of those anti-immunization nuts, even just a little, you're no better than spoonbenders, snakehandlers, UFO spotters and silver nitrate lickers. And you're a despicable leech.



I've talked to one doctor, a pharmicist and several nurses whoo had concerns about these rushed into production vaccines.
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Post Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:21 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Kar98



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 3170
Location: Dallas, Texas
 Reply with quote  

We're not talking about the annual flu shots. That's a different debate. We're talking about mumps, measles, rubella, polio, tetanus, pertussis and the like. I've got/had all of these shots, and I'm getting a tetanus refresher every few years, the last time in 2008. But the annual flu campaign is silly in my eyes.
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Post Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:38 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
girlEgirl



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 6412
Location: olympia, wa
 Reply with quote  

Kar98 wrote:
We're not talking about the annual flu shots. That's a different debate. We're talking about mumps, measles, rubella, polio, tetanus, pertussis and the like. I've got/had all of these shots, and I'm getting a tetanus refresher every few years, the last time in 2008. But the annual flu campaign is silly in my eyes.


what about the required chicken pox shot?
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Post Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:15 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ginjg



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
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Location: Los Angeles
 Reply with quote  

innoculation is basically a homeopathic method.

By the way, I got a tetanus booster this very afternoon along with some stitches. Word to the wise: Never make comments in the kitchen that remind the kitchen gods that they haven't exacted any sacrifice lately.
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Post Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:57 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
LostInWalmart



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 1900
 Reply with quote  

if you're taking advice from Jenny McCarthy about immunizations, you deserve what you get (which will more than likely involve debilitating disease for your children, nice work, and the spread of diseases you think don't matter any more). Concerns from people you talk to are to be treated as anecdotal, not to outweight a preponderance of evidence. Get educated, but be discrimating in your sources. Not all facts are equal.

also, don't be stupid.

LIW

Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:24 am   View user's profile Send private message
Kar98



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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Location: Dallas, Texas
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girlEgirl wrote:
Kar98 wrote:
We're not talking about the annual flu shots. That's a different debate. We're talking about mumps, measles, rubella, polio, tetanus, pertussis and the like. I've got/had all of these shots, and I'm getting a tetanus refresher every few years, the last time in 2008. But the annual flu campaign is silly in my eyes.


what about the required chicken pox shot?


Got it. The shot, not the chicken pox.
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:27 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
girlEgirl



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 6412
Location: olympia, wa
 Reply with quote  

Kar98 wrote:
girlEgirl wrote:
Kar98 wrote:
We're not talking about the annual flu shots. That's a different debate. We're talking about mumps, measles, rubella, polio, tetanus, pertussis and the like. I've got/had all of these shots, and I'm getting a tetanus refresher every few years, the last time in 2008. But the annual flu campaign is silly in my eyes.


what about the required chicken pox shot?


Got it. The shot, not the chicken pox.


i just wondered in which category that one fell, now that most schools have a pretense of it being required...
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:24 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
simba major



Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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 Reply with quote  

Ginjg wrote:
innoculation is basically a homeopathic method.


I have a hard time buying that one, no offence.
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:41 pm   View user's profile Send private message
girlEgirl



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
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Location: olympia, wa
 Reply with quote  

simba major wrote:
Ginjg wrote:
innoculation is basically a homeopathic method.


I have a hard time buying that one, no offence.


homeopathy is basically trying to stimulate your own immune system to cure itself by giving your body a tiny amount of whatever ailment that you are trying to cure or prevent .

which i totally get, but don't they use mercury in most of them gingj, or at least until very recently, didn't they?
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:01 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ginjg



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
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Location: Los Angeles
 Reply with quote  

simba major wrote:
Ginjg wrote:
innoculation is basically a homeopathic method.


I have a hard time buying that one, no offence.

The first principle in homeopathy is giving tiny doses of a substance that causes similar symptom to what you're trying to cure or prevent. In the case of prevention it causes the system to become resistant to the actual disease.
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:26 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Ginjg



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 6617
Location: Los Angeles
 Reply with quote  

Mercury is commonly used by homeopaths often for sore throat, middle ear infection and such.

Thimerosal was used in immunizations since the 1930s and never in single dose containers. even when used the amount is only a trace and considerably less in than in that serving of white meat tuna.

While the increase in the number of autism/aspergers cases is certainly affected by better diagnosis, it's nearly impossible that thimerosal or inoculations themselves or in combination are actually responsible. If they were there would have been a much earlier rise in "pervasive developmental disorders" and the non-immunized wouldn't have the same rate of diagnosis. I'd bet it's going to be eventually found to be a ubiquitous environmental contaminant.
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:01 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
simba major



Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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 Reply with quote  

Okay, my grasp of homeopathy is pretty tenuous, but I seem to remember something about diluting something so many times thatit essentially isn't even there any more.

Immunization, which stimulates the immune system into manufacturing antibodies, either with dead virus or some harmless part of it, like the cell wall or something, is a quite different enterprise.

I don't see how you can logically equate the two.

Homeopathy strikes me, no offence, as pseudo-science.
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:47 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Ginjg



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
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Location: Los Angeles
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You are so literal. All things can be carried to an extreme.

The amount of "active" material injected for an immunization is considerably smaller than active disease causing bacteria or virus found in someone who'd been casually infected.

Many Allergists use "microdoses" for their pateints with good results
There is new research being done through NIH on microdose delivery directly to tumors showing efficacy.
So, pseudo the original idea may seem, the concept turns out to be a valid method once the minimum effective dose is determined.
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:26 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
simba major



Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 626
 Reply with quote  

Ginjg wrote:
You are so literal. All things can be carried to an extreme.

The amount of "active" material injected for an immunization is considerably smaller than active disease causing bacteria or virus found in someone who'd been casually infected.

Many Allergists use "microdoses" for their pateints with good results
There is new research being done through NIH on microdose delivery directly to tumors showing efficacy.
So, pseudo the original idea may seem, the concept turns out to be a valid method once the minimum effective dose is determined.


But with homeopathy, the dose is so low, it's non-existant.

Yes?

"Homeopathy (also spelled homoeopathy or homťopathy) is a form of alternative medicine, first proposed by German physician Samuel Hahnemann in 1796, that attempts to treat patients with heavily diluted preparations. Based on an ipse dixit[1] axiom[2] formulated by Hahnemann which he called the law of similars, preparations which cause certain symptoms in healthy individuals are given as the treatment for patients exhibiting similar symptoms. So-called Homeopathic 'remedies' are prepared by serial dilution with shaking by forceful striking, which homeopaths term succussion, after each dilution under the assumption that this increases the effect of the treatment. Homeopaths call this process potentization. Dilution often continues until none of the original substance remains."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

How can that be anything but pseudo-science?
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:36 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Vahlee



Joined: 04 Nov 2005
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 Reply with quote  

because wikipedia is always the most trusted source.
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:07 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
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