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for better or worse -- poll


Will things be...
better
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
worse
71%
 71%  [ 5 ]
about the same
28%
 28%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 7

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palmer



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1324
for better or worse -- poll  Reply with quote  

Forget about whether you agree or disagree with the invasion of Iraq...

Saddam had decades to play with his country. What will happen in that country, in terms of human rights and security of person, now that the players have changed -- decades from now.

Will things be better, worse, or about the same.

That's all I'm asking.

That's all I'm asking.

Post Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:02 am   View user's profile Send private message
deb



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 6325
Location: Montana
 Reply with quote  

First rule of relationships: Don't go into it expecting the other to change.
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Post Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:09 am   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
gretchenfaith



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 452
 Reply with quote  

I think things are going to be about the same for the Iraqis - ie things will suck - even now, they are saying that women are not going to have equality under the new constitution...I'm not sure what we went in there for, but, I sure find it appalling that we have female soldiers fighting over there and that the Iraqi government is going to allow sharia law to govern women's issues in the new "democracy".
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Post Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:55 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Paul R



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 1827
Location: Kiribati
 Reply with quote  

Isn't there a "Don't care" button?

Paul R
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Post Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:56 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
chris
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 3833
Location: People Republic of Northern California
 Reply with quote  

If I want to answer narrowly posed yes or no questions that aren't yes or no questions I'll go on Hannity's show.


You cannot consider the end unless you consider the means -- unless, of course, you're Machiavelli.

Post Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:54 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
palmer



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1324
 Reply with quote  

chris wrote:
You cannot consider the end unless you consider the means -- unless, of course, you're Machiavelli.


The ends do not justify the means -- I think everyone (unless Machiavelli is lurking) will agree on that -- but the ends and means still exist, whether one examines them in tandem or not, do they not?

I'm just curious what people think the ends will be.

And, just in case the possibility has crossed anyone's mind, I will not crow over a "better" result in the poll or feel discouraged over a "worse". For that matter, I have not even voted because I don't have an opinion.

I'm just curious...

Post Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:03 pm   View user's profile Send private message
Ferrit Leggings



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 2658
 Reply with quote  

I think I answered this before. Oh yes I did. No, things are not better. The path of good intentions may lead to hell, a place I do not believe in, but the path of lies and deceit leads or should lead to a guilty conscience and the depths of hell where there is a place next to Judas who is being eating slowly by Satan with three heads who will sooner or latter grow a fourth. But that is if you accept that as truth.

This is a narrow view of Judas because he did what was prophesised so should he be there or by the right hand of god and not the left? Dante was such a weirdo but if hell is a place then there is someone there who is hungry and waiting.

Ta,
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Post Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:08 pm   View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
sgt_steve



Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 5197
Location: Michissippi
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While I agree that the ends cannot be separated from the means, the future is not irrevocably dictated by the past. I'm willing to take what we did in the leadup to the war and consider it as a fact/factor that influences what happens today and tomorrow in Iraq - but not go back and repeat the entire discussion.

So, to answer the question:

My prediction now is the same as what it was before we went in. IMHO the most likely occurences are, in this order:

    * We get the country held together with spit and baling wire, declare victory, leave, and it collapses in a massive 3-sides civil war, with Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites at each others' throats. Oh, and lots of sniping by Turkey and Iran supporting and opposing various factions.
    * We stay, and stay, and stay, because we don't want the above to happen. Eventually in spite of our best efforts we become the common enemy of all sides, and become a brutally repressive military dictatorship or are driven out in shame.
    * Deciding that neither of the above is acceptable, we partition the country into Kurdish, Shia and Sunni sectors. If we give the Kurdish north and the Shia south the oil, the Sunni center will try to make war on the Kurds. They'll succeed if Turkey gets involved, otherwise they'll fail because the Kurds will have the money and the oil. If we give the Sunni center some of the oil, the Shia will invade with the assistance of Iran. The Kurds won't invade, as they'll be too worried about Turkey.
Of these three scenarios, I think the third results in the least damage to the average Iraqi.

There is another possibility, that we actually establish a stable multi-cultural democracy. Seeing as how we're forgetting how to do that here, it seems the least likely of the outcomes.

Can you tell how optimistic I am?

Post Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:30 pm   View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
conspiracies unlimited



Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 4281
Location: California
 Reply with quote  

chris wrote:
If I want to answer narrowly posed yes or no questions that aren't yes or no questions I'll go on Hannity's show.


You cannot consider the end unless you consider the means -- unless, of course, you're Machiavelli.


You da man!!!

all hail tha Mighty AG!!!

Bow before his greatness!!!

Dude, you kick ass... truly...
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Post Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:13 pm   View user's profile Send private message
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